New law would ignore test failures and award belated high school diplomas to 8,000

The Georgia General Assembly is about to change the lives of 8,000 people never able to graduate high school because they failed part of the Georgia High School Graduation Test.

House Education Chair Brooks Coleman, R-Duluth, is the sponsor of a bill that frees former Georgia high school students from having to pass the GHSGT to earn their diplomas.  You can read House Bill 91 here. The bill is expected to pass both chambers.

Was it unfair to deny students diplomas because they failed a portion of the Georgia High School Graduation Test? (AJC File)

Was it unfair to deny students diplomas because they failed a portion of the Georgia High School Graduation Test? (AJC File)

The GHSGT dates back to 1991 when the Legislature voted to phase in a high school exit exam that would put teeth into the rising rhetoric of holding students accountable for basic academic knowledge. But the GHSGT was eventually deemed lacking and is no longer given, replaced by the End of Course Test. (The EOCT is being replaced by Georgia Milestones, but that’s another story.)

But failures on the test cast a long shadow.

Today, an estimated 8,000 Georgians still lack a diploma on their wall because of the test. They can appeal for a waiver to the state Board of Education and 400 to 500 do each month, according to the Department of Education’s Garry McGiboney, who testified at a House hearing Wednesday.

But McGiboney said Georgia’s appeal process is onerous as applicants must prove hardship or disability to win a waiver. (Other states have much simpler waiver processes that consider grades and attendance.)

At the hearing, Coleman said it is not fair to tell parents, “Yes, your child has to pass a test that is no longer required.”

DOE retired the test with the class that began high school in 2011.

At the time, Superintendent John Barge said, “I don’t believe the GHSGT is nearly as good an indicator of how much a student has learned as our End-of-Course Tests. The EOCTs are much more rigorous, and they test a student immediately following a course, rather than waiting until a student’s junior year to determine whether or not he or she has mastered the content of our curriculum.”

In its own study of the value of GHSGT in predicting how Georgia high school graduates would perform in college, the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement found, “Students who score higher on the High School Graduation Test have roughly the same college GPA as students who scored much lower.”

With the GHSGT, students had to pass writing, mathematics, English language arts, social studies and science. Students took the GHSGT for the first time in the spring of their junior year and could retake it as many times as necessary. They could not receive a full diploma if they didn’t pass all parts. Each test was scored from 100-300, and students had to earn at least 200 points to pass each exam.

Science proved the toughest hurdle. In some years, more than 20,000 students failed science. The statewide failure rate in science could be four and five times higher than in English and three times higher than in math.

Coleman shared an email from a Whitfield County mother whose daughter could not pass science or social studies. Now 29, the woman had a 3.6 grade point average in high school, which meant she qualified for the HOPE Scholarship. But, the mother wrote, “This has followed my daughter her entire life. What a glorious, happy day to see her get her diploma and stop being passed over.”

The tenor of the discussion Wednesday was interesting; lawmakers seemed apologetic students had to pass these tests.  “Our poor students were asked to do things that I think were impossible for some of them to have to do,” said Coleman.

“We have students who made A’s and B’s and 3.5 averages; they did all the requirements for graduation, and many have not passed one or two of the tests by one or two points,” said Coleman. “There are kids who took the test 22 to 33 times to try and get their diplomas.”

One affected student spoke at the hearing.

An Eagle Scout from Forsyth County’s Lambert High School, the 19-year-old described his efforts to pass the math test, including two-months of tutoring. (The math became a greater hurdle once Georgia raised its math standards and adopted an integrated approach for which not all teachers were adequately trained.)

The state board denied the young man’s waiver applications. He told the committee the lack of a high school diploma is blocking his plan to go to Lanier Technical College to train in physical therapy.

While he got close on this last try – a score of 185 – the teen still didn’t achieve the pass score of 200. House Bill 91 will not only allow him to go to college, but go with HOPE because he posted a 3.4 high school GPA.

“A lot of students will probably be eligible for HOPE if we just give them hope,” said Coleman. “I have never seen a bill have a positive impact on so many citizens in Georgia.”

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201 comments
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D.Hughes
D.Hughes

This hurts because yet I am not like other people. I played in high school and was a trouble maker. That still never kept me from passing my work and making it all up. Never failed a grade, but couldn't get my diploma because I couldn't pass the language Arts portion of the graduation test. I myself cannot go to college and working dead end jobs because I can't go! I want my diploma and just heard of this tonight and need help applying. I will do whatever it takes to finally see a Diploma. I have retaking the test lots of time and cannot remember the number! I have scored all the way from 185-199. So I know you guys see and feel my pain! 

Al Passmore
Al Passmore

Don't give up contact your Local school Board. It is the law of Georgia and they have to abide by it.

Jamie bennett
Jamie bennett

I graduated in 2007. Never passed the Social studies part so no college will take me. Now that they have passed this bill. I'm able to get my diploma? I filled out for it 3-4 months ago. I've herd nothing. The board of education barly would even talk to me rudely sent me away with a card to go online with. After I filled that out on line. They said do not send this agin do not call. What do I do??? Please help

Al Passmore
Al Passmore

Go to the board of education and find oot what to do. Don't give up!

Yvette G
Yvette G

The high school won't help my daughter they ignore her she needs help she can not pass the starrs test. It's summer time and she is doing nothing but sleeping cause she has trouble sleeping at night.

Lykesha Hester
Lykesha Hester

I am  dealing with this issue now, my child was an honor student , she had high ranking in the R.O.T.C, and her grades and conduct were high A's and B's. She passed everything but the math portion of the test . She took the math portion, (9) times , and when we asked for a waiver she was denied. Now I don't teach my kids , that there is an easy way to do things ,but  she has worked very hard. I feel she deserves her diploma. She had to work harder than her fellow classmates because she was diagnosed with ADD and ADHD in 5th grade. It was not easy for me as a parent and it surely wasn't easy for her.

Al Passmore
Al Passmore

There are no questions. The law has been passed. It is the law of Georgia. Go get your diploma

class80olddog
class80olddog

Perhaps the best thing for businesses would be to refuse to hire anyone without the following credentials:

1, College degree from respected university

2. Diploma from Private school

3. Diploma from start-up (not conversion) charter school.


Leave public school diplomas as what they really are - toilet paper.

Betsy2015
Betsy2015

Many of you have no idea what you are commenting on. You are spewing rhetoric that you have "heard or read" but not directly experienced yourself. First: From our experience, teachers in high school are not handing out passing grades except to kids who have earned them. No one has ever cut any of my 7 kids a break on grades in high school. They earned their A's along with their zeroes.

Second: My daughter did not receive her high school diploma primarily due to the graduation test. This new law would give her the diploma she earned but was denied. 

She took the graduation test 4 times in math. Her writing scores were good, her reading scores were off the charts. Have any of you who tout how "easy" the test is ever taken it? (How many of you solve matrices in the business or science world? This is considered "standard" math now.) She passed all 4 of her required maths in high school. By law, you do not have to pass the EOCT in order to pass the class. She did not pass the EOCT for Math 2. The school waited until the last week of her senior year to tell her (and us) she would not graduate with her class because she didn't pass the math portion of the graduation test and she did not get a high enough score on her EOCT in Math 2. (We were involved with the school and spoke with the counselor numerous times before this announcement was made.) The counselor and principal suggested she come back to school in the fall and just "audit" Math 2 and take the EOCT again to see if they could "give" her the diploma at the end of the next school year. And for those of you who don't know -  you cannot retake an EOCT unless you are currently enrolled in the class. This would have required her to go to high school for a fifth year and only take this class. She decided to "drop-out" instead and receive her GED. She was a good student, loved school, worked hard for the grades she earned. The school system and the current laws failed her and us as a family. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671 @Betsy2015


Step aside, in your mind, from the strict facts of what you have shared with Betsy, and see the absurdity of the rigmarole of the facts in your first paragraph - not in terms of your words - but in terms of the criteria itself, and ask yourself if the school system has been unjust to many students like Betsy's daughter.  I think it has been.  


Hopefully, this legislative bill will become law and, thereby, rectify the damage done to many students because of the limitations of the GHSGT, itself.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671 


My best way to answer that is to restate what Jerry Eads wrote to Maureen about the tests, themselves, a day ago on this thread (Jerry is an expert in test making):


"The misunderstanding is that we think these tests actually measure anything important enough to doom otherwise good students with graduation denial with absolutely (not almost) no data supporting the tests' viability. So, we're not asking too much or too little of kids with them, we're asking the wrong things. Whether or not students are being prepared adequately to be productive citizens is always an important discussion. The answer, however, is not a few incredibly poorly made fifty minute minimum competency tests. Even if someone cares nothing of other human lives, one could be concerned about the enormous cost to society for the (again) arbitrary and capricious denial of a high school diploma."


Moreover, as a certified Reading Specialist and teacher, I know how students passed enough courses to receive a high school diploma, yet failed to pass one of the sections of the GHSGT.  Here is how I explained that to 'Living-in-an-outdated-ed" a day ago:


"Students may pass courses because they understand enough of the content, listen in class, and do their homework, but some of their literacy levels may be low enough that they to not understand test-written questions on standardized tests because their backgrounds, and their parents and grandparents backgrounds, have not been literate backgrounds (This has nothing to do with their innate intelligence, btw.)"


Finally, the absurdity lies with the fact that the students are given 5 chances to pass the test and can be given a "variance" if their score was within "a certain percentage,"  yet they cannot be given that "variance" after 3 attempts or even 4 attempts - even when they passed courses in that same curriculum area.  Who is playing God in the State DOE to assign that number of retakes to the arbitrary (?) number of 5?

ScienceTeacher671
ScienceTeacher671

@Betsy2015 Your daughter had 5 chances to take the test and only took it 4 times?  If she took it all 5 times and was within a certain percentage, she could have received a variance, but if you skip one of the possible times, you can't get the variance. The counselor should have told you that.


Unfortunately, the results from the final administration of the test DO come back very close to graduation, which is not something that the school can control. Is your daughter doing okay with her GED?

Betsy Ross1776
Betsy Ross1776

@Betsy2015  Hey other Betsy, you're making our points for us -- your kid got her GED. No need for the legislature to hand her an unearned diploma.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@MaryElizabethSings 


More precise restatement of the absurdity (by adding the capitalized words):


"Finally, the absurdity lies with the fact that the students are given 5 chances to pass the test and can be given a "variance" if their score was within "a certain percentage," AFTER THE 5th ATTEMPT, yet they cannot be given that "variance" after 3 attempts or even 4 attempts. . . ."

Antagonist
Antagonist

@Betsy2015  Well, your experience has been pristine. However, it has not been universal.

Betsy Ross1776
Betsy Ross1776

@MaryElizabethSings @ScienceTeacher671 @Betsy2015  For Mary Elizabeth, everything is an injustice.  Mary Elizabeth has never valued personal responsibility and never valued personal accountability. For her, the world is still stuck in the 1950s time warp and she has never emerged into the year 2015.

ScienceTeacher671
ScienceTeacher671

Part of the problem here is the current lack of a special education diploma.  Most of the children who didn't pass the GHSGT were special needs students.  In many cases, they were graded in class on "effort" or "ability", not by whether or not they mastered the same material as regular-ed students, hence the high GPAs.  


For the past few years, we've been attempting to fit all our pegs into the same "college-prep" hole, and it hasn't worked very well.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671 


ST, you may be interested in reading my analysis of why many of these students were not able to pass the GHSGT, even though they had passed their regular course work, to "living-in-outdated-ed," far below

ScienceTeacher671
ScienceTeacher671

@MaryElizabethSings @ScienceTeacher671

I've already agreed with you that the state requires more reading skills in the other sections of the test than in the ELA portion - which is not really fair. Students must be able to read the word problems in math, as well as parts of the science and social studies tests which are designed to test reading comprehension rather than science or social studies knowledge.  

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671 


My plea was to have citizens realize that generational poverty - in which literacy has not been a priority in families in Georgia for generations but that survival has been their priority because of poverty - has impeded the reading comprehension skills of many students because of the formalized structure of the English language placed within standardized test items.  Nevertheless, many of those same students who failed those GHSGT could tell you the answers to many of those same curriculum test questions (math included) if the questions were phrased in colloquial English or asked through verbal, not written, language.

Starik
Starik

@MaryElizabethSings @ScienceTeacher671 Define colloquial English. Too many kids are incapable of speaking it.  Look at the jobs that are available to people that require an ability to speak - call center jobs, for one.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671 


To the contrary, I always had the highest expectations of every student I ever taught and every student I monitored in a school.  I simply wanted the wisdom to know what was impeding each student's full development to his own potential so that I could address it, or show teachers how to address the problem(s), with competency, care and instructional precision.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@ScienceTeacher671


"Most of the children who didn't pass the GHSGT were special needs students."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


That is a sweeping conclusion, Science Teacher.  I am not sure that you are correct - not from the five summers that I worked with these students.  Some were special needs students,  but "most"?  I cannot agree with your assessment without definitive proof.

Maria Hanby
Maria Hanby

@MaryElizabethSings @ScienceTeacher671 But what effective remedial instructional methodologies were provided and implemented with fidelity (such as OG vs LLI/Whole Language/Whole Word) to these students? I'm betting no OG and hence the generational poverty associated with generations illiteracy!!! Universal Design and Assistive Technology thank goodness can help level the playing field for the struggling learners, BUT WE NEED TO CLOSE THEIR LITERACY & NUMERACY GAPS!!! Only then will we start to turn the tide on generational illiteracy & poverty!  #SayDyslexia #1in5=>Dyslexia!

class80olddog
class80olddog

Back in "my day", we did not need the GHSGT, because teachers' grades were accurate and reflective of mastery.  If you did not do the work, if you did not master the subject matter, you FLUNKED. There were no "no zero" policies.  If you flunked the courses, you did not graduate and you dropped out.  Employers knew that if you graduated from high school, you had mastered a certain set of skills. 


But not anymore.  Teacher give C's to kids who are five years behind in reading/math.  They pass kids along who have no skills whatsoever.  And now the legislature wants to give these kids diplomas so that EVRYONE's diploma gets devalued.

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

Let me see if I get this right:

1.  Schools were passing students from grade to grade who could not do the work and were graduating illiterates.

2.  In response, Legislature passes law to enact "Graduation Testing"

3.  8000 students denied diploma because they couldn't pass a simple, watered down achievement test.

4.  Legislature says "To heck with it" and has since abolished the test.

5.  Legislature now says "We give up" and wants to just go ahead and give the 8000 students their diploma.

6.  Schools are still passing students from grade to grade who could not do the work and are still graduating illiterates.

In computer terms, we're staring at the "Blue Screen of Death".

Starik
Starik

@Lee_CPA2 CTRL-ALT-Delete. If that doesn't fix it, pull the plug and restart.

class80olddog
class80olddog

@Lee_CPA2  You have it just right!  And people want to increase the RIGOR of school with Common Core so that we can do more of this. 


If the educational system will not correct its faults, then the business community will have to adjust accordingly.  That means more pre-employment testing to see if that diploma from DEKALB COUNTY (laying off APS for the moment) means anything (or you can substitute Rabun County if you wish)

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

To Sara0507:


I hope that you will, next week, make an appointment with your daughter's school counselor to request a Form for Parental Request for Special Education Testing to determine if your daughter qualifies as having dyslexia and perhaps even having other learning disabilities (as well as already have been diagnosed as Gifted).  Once she is properly diagnosed, that diagnosis is legally binding, and her teachers must teach her according to strategies in which she can learn.


I would encourage you to work with your school's personnel and with the county school system's personnel in the Department of Special Education.  I believe when you get to the right person, your daughter will be tested and correct strategies will be implemented, if she qualifies.  Don't hesitate to act, but I would encourage you to foster a harmonious relationship with her counselor, her principal, and the personnel in the Department of Special Education because that approach ultimately should be more productive, as well as be less stressful for your daughter, for yourself, and for school personnel with whom you and your daughter will need to build an ongoing, mutually caring relationship - for your daughter's long-term benefit.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

Sara, I also needed to have mentioned to you that your school system, by law, is required to test your daughter for possible learning disabilities as long as you make that request in writing to your school.  Go directly to your daughter's school counselor (not her teachers), then go to the Principal (if necessary), and then to the Department of Special Education (if necessary, in that order) to get the Parent Request Form for Special Education Testing to formally request this IQ battery of tests done for your daughter. 

Starik
Starik

Shouldn't a student know how to read well after 12 years or more of school?  If a high school diploma doesn't at an absolute minimum, ensure an ability to read and do really simple math, what is the significance of high school graduation? 

bu2
bu2

@redweather @Starik 

I think we are all becoming more ADHD with the constant inputs and the way media is trying to reach people now with the rapidly changing images.  We aren't spending as much time reading books or relaxing/playing outside.  Its more rapid fire stimuli.  Everyone's brain is being trained differently.  That would be an interesting research study for a college education department and the impact on teaching.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@redweather 


Not clinical ADHD, of course, but caused by poor concentration HABITS related to the present day  media delivery bombardment of disparate ideas, constantly. I might add that poor concentration skills can also be caused by poverty which, in 35 year teaching career, I noticed that poor children often lacked an ability of sustained concentration skills (even though many were very bright).  Sustained concentration skills are needed to follow in-depth reading comprehension with full understanding.  Without full understanding, test scores are lowered.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@redweather @Starik 

That was my experience too before I retired from University teaching a few years ago, after 40+ years if I count my years as University Instructor. During the last 5 years or so, I noticed that my undergraduates didn't seem finish their assigned work, to judge from their classroom performance. They just would not read long materials. So I instituted pop reading quizzes that counted 10% of the final grade....that seemed to work pretty well, though I privately fumed that they seemed unwilling to read the material without a prod. Yes, tests were a good prod at the end, but meanwhile there were the unprepared classes.

redweather
redweather

@OriginalProf @redweather @Starik  I have given my fair share of reading quizzes, but even those don't do the trick any more.  Now I have them respond to one or two writing prompts while in class.  They have about 30 minutes, and they can use their textbooks.  This requires them to familiarize themselves with the text and then formulate a defendable response. I have them do this once a week, and they count for 25% of the grade in the class.  Of course, this means I have more things to read, but then I can read for sustained periods of time. 

Quidocetdiscit
Quidocetdiscit

@bu2 @redweather @Starik


Yes, we definitely see this as a growing issue at the elementary level as well.  Many of our students today have very low levels of "stick to it-ness". They give up far too easily and do not want to tackle anything that will require concentrated thought or more than a few minutes to complete. The new "media" is literally re-wiring our brains.  What will be the long term outcome of this?  I am not sure.  We might become better at certain rapid-fire skills, but I worry about activities or breakthroughs or projects that require diligence of thought or work that involves any real sustained concentration and perseverence.  I suspect our world is headed towards some very difficult times which will require the efforts of dedicated, hard working, deep thinking individuals to try and confront and solve - but I worry than too many of the young people I am working with today will not be up to the challenge.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@redweather @OriginalProf @Starik 

This also means that you have to use that 30 minutes of class time getting them to, basically, do the homework in class. Whatever happened to the old days when a faculty member could assign 15-20 pages of material to be read by class, come in to class, and then lecture/discuss assuming the students had read the materials as background?

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@redweather


Because I loved teaching college level vocabulary and the ideas contained in comprehension passages found on practice SATs, rarely were my students bored or inattentive and I didn't have discipline problems.  Many might have thought that subject matter might bore some students, but I will give testimony to the fact that if a teacher loves her subject matter, has an enthusiastic desire to communicate that knowledge to her students and watch them grow into their own understandings of that content (as well as loves her students), students are rarely bored or inattentive.  That has been my experience.


However, as many know, during the first few weeks of each quarter, I made certain that every student I taught was functioning high enough in verbal skills to at least pass the Advanced Reading course.  If not, through having analyzed the standardized reading test scores of those students who were failing my weekly vocabulary tests, I could assess who was presently misplaced in Advanced Reading. Then, I spoke with the students, the parents, and the counselors, and had those misplaced students rescheduled for our Personalized Reading course, taught by another Reading Specialist until those students could master the curriculum in Advanced Reading.  Many, later, did qualify for Advanced Reading after they had progressed in their verbal skills.  I do not recall any student or parent rejecting my suggestion for a movement to Personalized Reading because I shared the data and my reasoning with students, their parents, and the counselors before moves were made.  So, having all of my students well placed was another reason that my students were rarely bored or inattentive to the curriculum I taught them.  In fact, truthfully, they were hungry to learn the content.  That's what having every student well placed according to his or her correct instructional level will do.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Betsy Ross1776 


So, you have a sample of one, Betsy.  I saw thousands, of all races and backgrounds.  Upon that sample and upon my 35 years of observation, I based my conclusion

Quidocetdiscit
Quidocetdiscit

@Starik @OriginalProf @redweather


It is more than boredom.  It is a lack of ability to sustain attention.  Even when I am teaching subjects that should interest children, they tend to have difficulty maintaining focus. is boredom to tune out anything that isn't flashing, jumping and changing every few seconds, or it is something more sinister?  


Learning isn't about entertainment - sometimes, if you are lucky, you can make it entertaining, but somethings it just takes effort without all the glitter and flash.    Maybe part of the problem is that children "do" have a wealth of entertainment available to them, and some parents do not put any limits on that.  I have had parents sit in a conference and tell me they cannot get their child to do their homework, or even eat their dinner or go to bed because "all they do is play video games from the time they get home until late at night!"  And this is a nine year old.  Well, I suspect a lot of us would love to just play video games all the time, but we put limits on ourselves, and parents should put limits on their children as well, until such time as the children can set their own limits. 


Furthermore, school in many places is very different than when we were in school.  Now kids watch fun videos and songs to introduce topics, computer games allow them to practice skills, interactive online games and power points are projected on large screens. Clicks on links take them to online resources. They read off Nooks, e-books, and laptops with embedded video clips to enhance the content. Text books are full of brightly colored pictures, fun facts and blurbs - no more long passages of dry text.  The educational system HAS changed a great deal, but we cannot complete with the inherent reward of just goofing off - which is what most of us would choose if there were no negative consequences. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@OriginalProf 


I retired from the DeKalb School System in 2000, after 30 years of teaching.  I took a year off, and then became a substitute teacher in 10 different middle and high schools, in another metro county, through 2006, when I completed my teaching career.

Betsy Ross1776
Betsy Ross1776

@redweather @Starik  I hear ya, redweather. The point and click generation need parents who take away the point and click. I take away the point and click and all the electronic devices except the lamp in the living room. We read non-fiction hard back paper books with pages and illustrations and chapters (plural) for each child every night -- they read to us and when we (emphasizing the plural "parents") put them in bed, we read to them.
Point and click and touch screen kids only get that way when their parents ALLOW it. WE (emphasizing the plural) do NOT allow our children to plug in all day. Good parents turn it off and then turn them on to reading and research.

Starik
Starik

@Quidocetdiscit @Starik @OriginalProf @redweather  "In my view, boredom is an attitude.  So is attentiveness."  Sitting in class while the teacher repeats the lesson over and over for the kids who don't get it the first time is boring.  Listening to a teacher who has little or no knowledge of the subject is boring. 

class80olddog
class80olddog

@MaryElizabethSings @redweather  I think most of the "clinical" cases aren't really clinical. I think we way overdiagnose our children.  Everyone (at least all the boys) are clinical ADHD these days.  In the old days, you would give them a spanking and they would be cured!

redweather
redweather

@OriginalProf @redweather @Starik  It occurred to me some time ago that getting them to do the homework in class was better than their not doing the homework at all.  And it certainly does improve the classroom discussions.  They actually gain insights into the reading that they wouldn't have otherwise.  You've got to know how to pick your battles.

redweather
redweather

@Starik  Based on my experience in the college classroom, high school graduates can read.  What they have trouble doing is concentrating sufficiently for a sustained read.  After a page or two they become visibly frustrated (and fidgety) with "how long" the reading selection is.  I have noticed this when assigning them to read something while in class (because I'm pretty sure they didn't read it before class).  The point-and-click generation, and I mean children born since 1995, all seem to suffer from ADHD.  And I am not making a joke.  Not sure if there is any research out there that might support my impression, however.  Could be only an impression.  But if I am right, then a test that may take an hour or more to complete would present a formidable obstacle for them.

Maria Hanby
Maria Hanby

@redweather @Starik  Suggest that they use an alternative e-text that they can listen too or read along too! Text to Speech doesn't need to be only for those with reading disabilities!!!

Maria Hanby
Maria Hanby

@OriginalProf @redweather @Starik  That is because none of them are expected to actually perform at grade level anymore! The bar has been buried so low. Rather than bringing up those that are struggling academically, they lower the bar for the whole class! Everyone is losing with this current status quo! But don't hold the schools (and therfore teachers accountable! It's not their problem their students are not learning! They all have parents that are not involved enough, too involved, ADD, behavioral issues, LD's that they can now ignore thanks to "safety nets" for special ed students, etc, etc, etc...)


Starik
Starik

@OriginalProf @redweather @Starik This is a good discussion. I recall my school experiences...the classroom was incredibly boring, except when there was back-and-forth discussion.  When I got home, I read books; the TV at the time was incredibly bad, and the choices were very limited.  Kids today have a wealth of entertainment available - video games, smart phones and for those so inclined, some really interesting TV.  Thousands of engaging movies are available, and we can watch what we want when we want. The world has changed, the kids have changed, and we need to change the educational system accordingly. 


The kids are bored.