University of Oklahoma expels two students who led racist chant

Fulfilling his promise of zero tolerance for racism on his campus, University of Oklahoma President David Boren announced he had expelled two students today who had leadership roles in the racist chant caught on video:

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58 comments
Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

So, let me get this straight, you kick a fraternity of 100 or so students off campus because a few sang a silly song and expelled two students who were "leaders", all in the name of "zero tolerance" and "anti-discrimination", but you allow the following groups, who, by their name and charter, are discriminatory:

Black Student Association

Native American Student Association

Asian Student Association

Phillipino Student Association

Indian Student Association

Arab Student Association

Student Council of the NAACP

Association of Black Accountants

Association of Black Engineers

The list just goes on and on.  Know what is missing?  That's right, a WHITE Student Association. 

Let me rephrase, a STRAIGHT WHITE Student Association.  After all, there is a Gay/Bi/Transgender/Lesbian Student Association.

Meanwhile, at the University of California Irvine, a student government council, composed entirely of non-whites I might add, voted to remove the American flag from a lobby of a building because it "might distress non-documented citizens".

All of the above is why i refer to political correctness as a pathology, really no different than a mental illness that allows a person to cut themselves with a razor.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@Lee_CPA2 

What on earth does this have to do with members of a student organization on a school bus who enthusiastically sing about lynching black people?

redweather
redweather

@Lee_CPA2  People of color have formed associations promoting their values and interests because they were systematically denied admission to similar associations based on their race and ethnicity.  But you would deny them that right?   

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

@redweather

"Denied admissions".  You mean like the white students who are denied admissions to college because the university admits "people of color" that are less academically qualified?  So, when OU President David Boren says that he will not tolerate "discrimination", I guess he is not referring to the government sanctioned discrimination of affirmative action admissions.

redweather
redweather

@Lee_CPA2 @redweather  I would remind you that the ancestors of those black students were also systematically denied admission to colleges and universities in this country solely because of the color of their skin.  You are one of those incredibly misguided people who simply want to wish the past away.  And yet the past, as evidenced by the SAE story, always seems to rear its ugly head.

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

@redweather

Ah yes, the old "let's punish someone who never had a thing to do with slavery in order to appease someone who's never been a slave" argumentt.  Gotcha.

MoreySims
MoreySims

hopefully universities start kicking all these fraternities off campus---just a bunch of lowlife drunks.maybe these 2 can transfer to auburn, alabama or Mississippi --- they are even more racist!

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

Well, well, well, I see the politically correct pathogens of cultural marxism have taken another step in the destruction of the US Constitution, you know, that document that includes that pesky 1st Amendment, which memorializes our rights to Freedom of Speech.  A right which a GOVERNMENT official of a US PUBLIC University should be defending, especially given the background of David Boren as a former US Senator, who, by the way, took an oath to DEFEND SAID CONSTITUTION.

Once upon a time, a great man would have said "I disagree with what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I guess we now know what kind of coward runs the University of Oklahoma, eh?

Bernie31
Bernie31

@MaryElizabethSings  - No My Friend, it has not been NIPPED completely. He is only in the initial stages of the investigation to NIP it in the BUD. This one, will NOT be anything like the KANGEROO Third World Investigation and Charging with APS!

RLSmith
RLSmith

You need to learn the difference between racism and bigotry. The fraternity is a bunch of bigots.

Get your facts straight.

straker
straker

meno - "were those supposed citizens bound by the codes of a University"


No, but its amazing how selective so many are in their outrage.

Astropig
Astropig

I would just point out that Boren was elected to the U.S. Senate for three terms back in the 80's,where he was essentially "Oklahoma's Sam Nunn" (they palled around together). He was a real centrist Democrat that pretty well reflected Oklahoma's center/right orientation.His action here seems right in character for him-no nonsense,no moral equivalency and no dissembling.I applaud his actions,as do most thinking people. It's too bad that there are not more like him (and Senator Nunn) in our public life these days.

straker
straker

I wonder what punishment might be appropriate for those marchers in NY who were chanting "what do we want - dead cops"?


Or, is that not covered under "threatening racist behavior"?

meno
meno

@straker Were these supposed citizens bound by the codes of a University they willingly attended?

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

Universities have rules of conduct to which students agree when they register, and I'm sure that U.O. has rules against discriminatory behavior while on school property. (The students were riding a school bus.) It isn't hearsay, for there's the video of them singing. It doesn't matter if it is a civil crime or not. 


@ RichardKPE:  So you think that "political correctness" alone is responsible for the school thinking that its fraternity members should not be singing a song on a school bus praising the lynching of black students? You are really out of touch.

Bernie31
Bernie31

@OriginalProf  - My Dear this is the very reason why I believe and many others across this Land are starting to believe and accept. Its time for America to shed more of its Older thinking Americans. Its becoming clearer each and every passing day. This Generation of Americans must transition to the next plane, in order for America to reach her Full potential as The Greatest Nation on this Earth.

The Old Thinkers are not truly believers in the long standing principals of the Founding Fathers of this Nation. They are only interested in a continuing a long practiced PERVERSION of a AMERICA made of THEIR OWN IMAGE. A image that is EVIL, DIVISIVE, UNCHRISTIAN LIKE, MEAN SPIRITED, BIGOTED,PREJUDICED AND RACISTS. They are the Cancerous Disease this Nation cannot seem to rid itself of. But We will...and

Yes We CAN!

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@RichardKPE @OriginalProf 

So racist behavior isn't discriminatory?!


My point was that students always sign papers when registering for a University stating that they are subject to University rules. This whole matter is up to the University officials to decide, not some court of law. And I would very much like to know the context.  Had the fraternity been guilty of past incidents of harassment or discrimination? Was the campus already racially divided and tense? I notice the many black students protesting in the picture. Had there been campus incidents involving racial threats, so that this punishment was considered a general example to all?  All could be factors.

RichardKPE
RichardKPE

@OriginalProf @RichardKPE "So racist behavior isn't discriminatory?!"


Big difference between racism and discrimination, and you're forgetting that fraternities and sororities are discriminatory by definition.


Allow me an example.  I was a member of a fraternity (not SAE) that was blatantly discriminatory.  If you were not a member of a certain group (actually two groups if you include gender), no entry for you.  Now we didn't video ourselves chanting obsenities at other groups for youtube viewers, but we discriminated nonetheless.  That fraternity still discriminates to this day, and wont stop anytime soon.


The difference was that we didn't have chants posted on youtube.


Again, I'm not going to say positive things about these SAE kids, but this could have become a teaching opportunity for stupid kids.  Instead, the president opted for banishment because it's easier to banish the problem (so someone else can deal with it) instead of fixing it.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@RichardKPE @OriginalProf 

I'm surprised you didn't mention what is true--that many fraternities and sororities have explicit instructions from their national HQs not to pledge members of various minorities (Jews and blacks, usually). Some have been taken off college campuses for that.  And then there are the black fraternities and sororities....

Again, I would really like to know the context, for this President's reaction was unusually swift....either it was the last straw for SAE behavior, or the campus has recently seen racial stress.
 

RichardKPE
RichardKPE

@OriginalProf You've equated discriminatory behavior to racism.  Might want to check your definitions.  


Honestly, is what these kids did that awful?  A song with naughty language?  The president treated them like they were in an ISIS beheading video.  I'm not saying these are good kids, but the punishment is WAY out of proportion considering the crime.

BearCasey
BearCasey

@Bernie31 @OriginalProf Bernie, if you met me on the street, I'm afraid that you would make unwarranted assumptions about me because of my age, appearance, race and drawl.  Your posts are increasingly irrational.  I abhor racism.  Your phrase "older thinking" is unfortunate.  A little self reflection might be in order.


Bernie31
Bernie31

@BearCasey @Bernie31 @OriginalProf   - Ahhh...I think you may have been touched if I did not know any better. How is that self reflection going? Pretty Ugly view... Huh?

Its not too Late...if you are sincere in your change. but you must start being honest with yourself first before giving such advice. I have several coupons for a large pack of depends,

Size XXXL,  you want em?  uh..huh.

redweather
redweather

@OriginalProf @RichardKPE  This is posted at the webpage for SAE:


Non-Discrimination Policy


The Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity shall not discriminate on the basis of race, color, creed, national origin, ancestry, sexual orientation, age or physical or mental disability, religion, marital status, military status, order of protection status and unfavorable military discharge.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@popacorn @OriginalProf 

What are you talking about?  My observations are from 30+ years of seeing Universities governing students, including years spent on committees dealing with student codes of conduct.  My own university was involved in a case of fraternity racial harassment that caused the chapter to be sanctioned.

redweather
redweather

@Bernie31 @OriginalProf  Every time I see one of your inane posts about shedding older thinking Americans I begin to wonder if you might want to consider joining AA.  If you are not drunk when making these comments, then the only other explanation is that you are a real moron.

Bernie31
Bernie31

Now that the Cesspool is about Full of the Old Thinkers usual commentary....Let me say this. Thank-You University Of Oklahoma President David Boren. For your steadfast Bold and Brave Leadership. You have No Idea of the amount of gratitude that is being felt and expressed all across this Great nation of OURS for your FINE Leadership in the handling of this Mean Spirited and Horrific display of Racial Hatred and Bigotry. There are millions of American Grand Parents, Parents, and Students are somewhat, relieved that you have set an example for other Universities and Colleges to follow and emulate when faced with such Evil and Heartbreaking Behavior. Thank-you Sir and May God Bless You and the University of Oklahoma.

Bernie31
Bernie31

@Savdon @Bernie31  -  We Love You and Praying for You too! There are more expulsions to come...I can assure you of that.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@Savdon @Bernie31 

I think that worse than the racial slur was the pleased anticipation of lynching the black student.

And...as a white person, I just don't know that "cracker" and "honky" are on the same level as "n*gger." Now, granted, I originated in the North. But "cracker" seems more like a hayseed or ignorant country person to me. Wasn't the Atlanta baseball team called "the Crackers" long ago? And "honky" doesn't seem like a slur on the level with the N-word.  Of course, the real reason that "N*gger" resonates so is that it was used during slavery and Jim Crow days as a very real insult often accompanied by whipping or lynching. 

Astropig
Astropig

@OriginalProf @Savdon @Bernie31


" I just don't know that "cracker" and "honky" are on the same level as "n*gger." Now, granted, I originated in the North."


Yes they are. the intent is to offend and denigrate.Yes they are.

Savdon
Savdon

@OriginalProf @Savdon @Bernie31 Yes, I understand what you are saying.  I remember as a young boy in Atlanta asking "What is a N?"  I was told that's what the "colored" people are called.  I don't recall any hate in their voices.  Later on I heard blacks were now going to be called Negros. Then later on they were changing to "Blacks". Ok. Fine with me.  When it got to "African Americans", that's where I said, "No.  They are Americans."  I will not call them African Americans because they are no more African than I am German/Irish, which is my heritage.  I am an American.  They are Americans.  

My first bout with integration:  Walking down a westside street in ATL.  I was 7.  Walking past a laundromat,   "Momma, why does that sign say Whites Only?  Does that mean only white clothes can be washed there?"  True story.  My mom told me that it meant that only white people could go in there.  I remember wondering why that was.  And-->knowing that just didn't seen right.  After all, a black lady spent more time taking care of me than my mom or dad in my early years.  My mother worked all day and my dad was gone most of the time on business. 


Being a white man who has worked non-stop for 50 years, it seems that I fit the profile of the most hated segment of people in America.  And I don't like it.  Other than an opportunity nobody gave me squat.  When I signed up to defend this country it was to defend Everybody-just as my Black USMC "brothers" did.


It's all good though.  I am at peace with how I have treated others my entire life.  I sleep well.  

ssinf
ssinf

@Savdon 


I have literally never heard of anyone referred to as a "honky" since The Jeffersons was on TV.

Bernie31
Bernie31

@OriginalProf @Savdon @Bernie31  - why should I indulge such Crass stupidity on the same  level of WHALE dung???  why should I?  It will Never see the Light of DAY!   ))

Astropig
Astropig

@ssinf @Savdon


"I have literally never heard of anyone referred to as a "honky" since The Jeffersons was on TV"


Yeah, that seems to have passed out of fashion.


I recently related to my family that my college history professors pronunciation of "negro" would never pass muster in today's politically correct society.It came out in class as "nigra" due to her dialect.I found it odd the first time she said the word and never really got used to it. She would be in for some heavy re-education in the world of 2015.

Bernie31
Bernie31

@Astropig @ssinf @Savdon  - Old Thinkers Lingo! They are stuck in the Past.

this is America's problem....they want to go Backwards, while the rest of the world is moving FORWARD!


A lot like you....

Savdon
Savdon

@Bernie31 From this point, on the first minority on campus heard to utter the word "Cracker, honky, etc." in reference to a white student better also be shown the door.  You know, it works both ways.

RichardKPE
RichardKPE

Perfect.  Let's completely ignore the teaching opportunity (at an educational institution no less) and just banish the kids that didn't commit a crime of any kind.  Nice that he's hoping the students learn from the experience by removing the teachers.


Good job Mr. Boren.  Way to advance political correctness by sacrificing learning.  Quality move!

EdUktr
EdUktr

@RichardKPE

What we've witnessed the past 2-3 days isn't just political correctness gone mad. 

More likely it's festering rage over the pummeling voters nationwide gave Democrats last November.



RichardKPE
RichardKPE

@EdUktr @RichardKPE It's the banishment of speech we don't like.  This president chose to placate the social media crowd rather than educate his students.  He is the disgusting one, not the kids.

ssinf
ssinf

@EdUktr 


It's odd the election you choose to cite as a "pummeling" had the lowest turnout in 70-something years.


Do you really think that Democrats will be pummeled in 2016?

ProHumanitate
ProHumanitate

@RichardKPE

Violating the code of conduct of the university can absolutely be grounds for expulsion. 

ssinf
ssinf

@EdUktr 


"Do you really think that Democrats will be pummeled in 2016"


So you won't answer this one. I guess the answer is fairly apparent so there's no need to address it. A lot of good that majority will do! The GOP caucus is completely dysfunctional. We will have another 18 months of the Congress passing laws and having them vetoed. Then Hillary takes office after 2016, likely with a Senate majority. What then?

Quidocetdiscit
Quidocetdiscit

@RichardKPE A "teaching opportunity"?  If these young men could make it to this age and still need to be "taught" that calling black the N word and talking about hanging them from a tree is not acceptable, then I have little hope that they can "learn" much of anything at this point.  A "teaching opportunity" is all about actually TEACHING something that your students are actively engaged in "learning".  These students already knew this was wrong.  They did it anyway.  Now they need to be "taught" a lesson about consequences. 

bu2
bu2

@RichardKPE @EdUktr 

Right.  He as much as said in an earlier interview he might violate these students civil rights by doing this but he was going to try to.  So basically he said, "Sue me."


They did this in a private party on a charter bus, obviously not within earshot of any Black students and didn't intend for this to be public. 


Once you go down the path of regulating private speech, you are on a dangerous journey.


What if they had said we wouldn't allow any illegal aliens in our fraternity and that they should be sent back to their home country?  Would they get expelled for that?


Do you only stop controlling private speech when we live in Orwell's 1984?

bu2
bu2

@bu2 @RichardKPE @EdUktr 

From a professor from UCLA, yes in the California system:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/03/10/what-speech-is-going-to-justify-expulsion-next/


....

And what I call “censorship envy” will make it all the more likely that there will indeed be calls for expelling students who express those other views. Right now, for instance, Jewish students who have to deal with their classmates’ holding anti-Semitic views, and expressing them to each other, may rightly assume that such speech is protected by the First Amendment and the university can’t expel the anti-Semites. But if it becomes accepted that a university can expel people who express racist views about blacks, why wouldn’t many Jewish students call for expulsion of students who express (even just to each other) anti-Semitic views? Indeed, many students might think that they would be chumps for failing to demand such expulsion, after they’ve been taught that such speech victimizes them by creating a “hostile educational environment” that can be remedied by expelling bigoted students. And that’s just one example.

Moreover, this surely wouldn’t be limited just to people who use epithets — president Boren’s statement speaks generally of the viewpoint of the speech (“racist and exclusionary”) and not just the particular words that were used. Nor would it be limited to things that really are contemptible; as we’ve all seen in past years, “hate speech” and “hostile educational environment” is a label that is cheerfully thrown around, to refer to criticisms of illegal immigration, to people deliberately trampling the Hamas flag, and much more. To quote Justice Jackson in West Va. Bd. of Education v. Barnette (1943), First Amendment law is “designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings.”