New federal study advises caution in using student scores to rate teachers

Over the last few days, thousands of Georgia teachers have read and shared the AJC Get Schooled blog and Facebook posts about the state’s new evaluation system. Teachers are upset the system could base half of their performance ratings on student test scores. (Look for an AJC news story about the revolt brewing among teachers over this issue.)

The federal Department of Education endorsed using scores to evaluate teachers, making it a condition of a Race to the Top grant. As of 2014, 40 states were using or piloting programs to evaluate teachers in part based on growth in student learning as reflected by test scores.

The consequences of unsatisfactory evaluations could include frozen salaries, remediation or dismissal, while good evaluations could bring a bonus, a salary jump, or tenure. Georgia is unusual in counting student growth for 50 percent of a teacher’s performance rating; most states count it for 20 or 30 percent.

Along with unhappy teachers, I am hearing from puzzled readers asking why it’s unfair to judge teachers on how much growth their students show on tests. A new federal study suggests why.testart

The Nevada Department of Education asked the U.S. DOE’s Institute of Education Sciences to investigate the stability of the teacher-level growth score. The Regional Educational Laboratory analyzed three years of math and reading score data for about 370 elementary and middle school teachers from Nevada’s second largest school district.

Here is what researchers said:

This study examines one overarching research question: How stable over years are annual teacher-level growth scores, derived by applying the student growth percentile model to student scores from Nevada’s Criterion-Referenced Tests in math and reading? In other words, how likely is it that the same score would be obtained in different years?

In math, half the variance in teacher scores in any given year was attributable to differences among teachers, and half was random or unstable. In reading, the proportion of the variance attributable to differences among teachers was .41, and .59 was random or unstable.

More stable measures of effectiveness can be constructed by averaging multiple years of growth scores for a teacher. For example, when effectiveness is computed as an average of annual scores for three years, the proportion of the variance in teacher scores attributable to differences among teachers is .75 in math and .68 in reading.

These estimates do not meet the .85 level of reliability traditionally desired in scores used for high-stakes decisions about individuals (Haertel, 2013; Wasserman & Bracken, 2003). States that are considering the student growth percentile model for teacher accountability may want to be cautious about using the scores for high-stakes decisions.

The study concludes:

This study finds half or more of the variance in teacher scores from the model is due to random or otherwise unstable sources rather than to reliable information that could predict future performance. Even when derived by averaging several years of teacher scores, effectiveness estimates are unlikely to provide a level of reliability desired in scores used for high-stakes decisions, such as tenure or dismissal. Thus, states may want to be cautious in using student growth percentile scores for teacher evaluation.

The conclusion that growth scores alone may not be sufficiently stable to support high stakes decisions suggests the need to examine measures of teacher effectiveness and their interpretation in evaluation systems. The growth score may not be a sound measure of a teacher’s effectiveness, or the magnitude of a teacher’s effect on student learning may not be as predictable a trait of the teacher as many evaluation systems assume it is. Rather, a teacher’s effectiveness may depend in part on features of the teacher’s students—that is, the collection of students in any given year, which change from one year to the next.  Growth measures may need to be thought of differently—considered a measure that is associated with a particular combination of teacher and students rather than one that is attributable to the teacher alone.

Thus, as states examine properties of their estimates of teacher effectiveness and decision makers weigh how to incorporate teacher-level growth scores in teacher accountability policy, they may want to exercise caution and further investigate whether teacher-level growth scores are sufficiently stable for use in high-stakes decisions. Many educator evaluation models include multiple measures such as teacher observations, surveys, or additional student outcomes. So policymakers may want to consider the stability of those other measures and examine the reliability of different combinations of measures and the weight assigned to different measures.

 

 

Reader Comments 0

110 comments
NikoleA
NikoleA

This is not new.  At the time these measurements were created, researched cautioned against using them as high stakes performance measures.

drdon
drdon

 Fall 2015 PAGE (Professional Association of Georgia Educators) survey of 6200 teachers -

   68% would not recommend a career in education.

The state "needs more STEM graduates to attract companies" yet a new h.s. math teacher has 170 students. 

Starik
Starik

@drdon Times are changing, and rapidly - I expect many medical doctors and lawyers are unhappy with what's happening in those professions.

jerryeads
jerryeads

Pretty clear that Legong can't read. Guess we failed him - - -.

The research FOR YEARS has been showing starkly clearly that our tests - especially the low-bid junk states buy on the cheap - are egregiously incapable of fairly and accurately measuring teacher effectiveness (much less anything else). Not only are the tests substandard for the purpose, there's simply too much else going on in the classroom, school, family and community to sift out from the teacher effect. People seem to think measuring incredibly complex activity is as simple as sticking a thermometer up - well, you know. There's a great Nonsequitur cartoon in Wednesday's paper that has a fork in the road with the vast herd of folks turning left under the sign "Answers" to the arrow "Simple but wrong" and like lemmings jumping off the cliff. The arrow to the right says "Complex but right" toward a long arduous path. That's the road to better schools.

Starik, you have a point, but size may not be the only factor. Gwinnett schools are far from perfect, but are on the whole pretty strong, and Gwinnett's the 800 lb. gorilla. As others note frequently, leadership is likely one of the key issues, and as long as too many of us keep electing self-serving demagogues (regardless of party), we won't fix that problem.

HILUX
HILUX

Feel free to send your own kids to schools that don't test kids or hold teachers accountable in any way whatsoever.

And do continue to turn your paycheck over to your union's bosses.

HILUX
HILUX

We've gotten through our heads, thank you, that the teachers' unions and their paid mouthpieces won't abide by any test which finds fault with even the most incompetent teachers.

No unions, you say? A car full of union goons is on its way to your home, to set you straight:

http://www.nea.org/home/18469.htm

HILUX
HILUX

Perhaps you should move to Chicago or Detroit, where your kid could benefit directly form those "real" unions and their product.

JBBrown1968
JBBrown1968

@HILUX So....we both agree! This is not Chicago or Detroit and Georgia does not have a union! Thank You! 

JBBrown1968
JBBrown1968

@Starik @JBBrown1968 @HILUX I also bet your school district has a weight room and a football field that rivals Texas stadium. What the hell does that have too do with all the teacher bashing? You people should be ganging up on your local board of education, not your teachers! 

CSpinks
CSpinks

@Starik @JBBrown1968 @HILUX Many principals are also the beneficiaries of a bureaucratic system which rewards sycophancy, family ties, fraternity and sorority affiliations, the provision of sexual favors and political support for the-powers-that-be rather than professional competence and personal character.


Why do we teachers- active and retired- acquiesce in such an abominable system of job advancement?

jerryeads
jerryeads

@HILUX You miss the point, like Legong. Just as in ANY situation, it's leadership that best evaluates its employees. Schools have done a lousy job of selecting and developing competent managers who not only can run the place but are competent enough at the skills required for the situation (teaching in this case) to evaluate them. TEACHERS assess kids every second of every day, which is why the vast majority of them know FAR better how their kids are doing than one single badly made fifty minute piece of junk from the state can tell you. Should we do some external testing? Of course. Get it through your head that every competent educator (the vast majority) wants DECENT (i.e., not the junk the state foists) external comparative testing that actually (again, unlike the state's testing) helps them learn how to do better.

And are you REALLY that misinformed in this state? THERE ARE NO UNIONS IN GEORGIA. THIS IS A RIGHT TO WORK STATE. You guys are without doubt the best examples that we do fail to educate some people. 

JBBrown1968
JBBrown1968

@HILUX So...who are you a paid mouthpiece for? Clearly you are reading from a script and posting with many accounts! Union....you have no clue! I wish these teachers were not so weak! Bullies like you need to see a real union! You would pee in your panties!

JBBrown1968
JBBrown1968

@HILUX Militancy Right! No, I just want people like you to stop spreading lies! If these people had a union they could set you and the bureaucracy straight. Nameless people on the internet cause unjust problems because they have no fear of repercussions!

Point is the board of education runs the show. That is where your anonymous bitching should be! 

Starik
Starik

@JBBrown1968 @Starik @HILUX Who's ganging up on teachers?  I would like to see the worst-educated teachers disappear.  How can you teach a subject you don't understand?

JBBrown1968
JBBrown1968

@Starik @JBBrown1968 @HILUX

You do with many alter egos! You brashly claim all teachers are stupid! You always post relentless false propaganda. There are bad workers in all professions.  

Starik
Starik

@JBBrown1968 @Starik @HILUX I have no alter egos, or a/k/as, or aliases - I'm just a concerned citizen who observed the collapse of the DeKalb schools by virtue of having kids educated there. All teachers are not stupid. Most teachers are not stupid. Some are stupid, and teaching is too important a profession to allow them to teach.

Starik
Starik

@JBBrown1968 @HILUX What Georgia does have is many Principals whose teaching experience is limited to coaching (mostly) and teaching a few classes (badly). 

Starik
Starik

What I gather from this discussion is that the public school system, in some districts, is beyond repair.  Take the truancy situation.  In my experience, in DeKalb County, high schoolers show up when they feel like it, and the schools don't care - many of the absent kids cause problems for the school, and there's no desire to deal with them. The court system in DeKalb can't deal with truancy cases unless the school reports them, and if they did wouldn't have the capacity to deal with the cases.  Georgia keeps taxes and services at a minimum. 


The best hope I see is to shrink the districts (in Metro Atlanta) so there's some sense of community.  Decatur works. Decatur is small. Dunwoody, Brookhaven, Tucker and other city systems would work; at least the schools would reflect the desires of the community.

class80olddog
class80olddog

@Starik From another standpoint, if schools reported truancy cases to the legal system, and then the courts did nothing to address the issues, the schools could shift the blame to the courts.  But I also don't understand why school administrators don't use some in-house powers - for example - if a student comes in late, they have to stay after school in detention for double the amount of time they were late.  If they do not show up for detention, then they must come to school for Saturday detention.  If they do not show up for that, they are referred to the courts.  Same way with unexcused absences (no doctor' s note) - Saturday detention, then referral if no show.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@class80olddog @Starik 

This would cost extra money, to pay a teacher or parapro to monitor these detentions, to come to the school on Saturdays (many teachers might rebel at doing that). School administrators are notoriously stingy.

CSpinks
CSpinks

@Starik Contrary to the popular shibboleth, bigger is not better. Smaller districts- and schools, for that matter- might provide the sense of community which larger districts- and schools- lack.

CSpinks
CSpinks

@class80olddog @Starik Dr. John Trotter, Chair of the Board of the Metro Association of Classroom Educators(MACE), went on the record at a recent Clayton County BOE meeting with his contention that Clayton County public schools are chaotic. Does anyone with more than a double-digit intelligence quotient think that the CCSS is unique among Georgia public school systems?

ClayNewton
ClayNewton

I work in Clayton County. Sure, we can keep them after, but who's going to take them home? I WISH we could hold them accountable. It has to start with the school leaders, though. I like your idea, I'm just jaded.

elementary-pal
elementary-pal

@class80olddog @Starik  Stingy?  I wish I had the money to pay for additional hours or additional people for before and after-school work.  Do you really think we have control over that kind of money?


Bitcoined
Bitcoined

No argument with that. But for the record, MACE is tiny and third-rate.

class80olddog
class80olddog

As I understand it, the system uses the end of course "milestones" test as 20% of the students assessment and 50% of the teacher's.  It should at least be the other way around - 50% of the students grade and 20% of the teacher's assessment.

ClayNewton
ClayNewton

In addition to this, teachers (myself included) are pressured to pass kids, which essentially means I'm held accountable for what they aren't held accountable for.

class80olddog
class80olddog

I am still waiting to see the ADMINISTRATORS held accountable for student achievement based on scores (they should also be accountable for discipline, attendance, and number of kids socially promoted).

elementary-pal
elementary-pal

@class80olddog  Just so you know...principals are held accountable for student achievement and attendance. 

An overall Leader Effectiveness Measure shall be calculated as follows:

• The Leader Assessment on Performance Standards (LAPS) rating

• The Student Growth and Academic Achievement component (SLO and/or SGP) rating

• The Achievement Gap Reduction

Legong
Legong

This newspaper column's daily crusade against school accountability is doomed to ultimately fail. Parents will no longer accept schools that do not teach.

The teachers' union propaganda machine can't change that.

class80olddog
class80olddog

@Wascatlady @Legong Yes, that would be nice, but don't hold your breath.  Instead, concentrate on the things that are within the power of the school to address.  Attendance through enforcement of truancy laws.  Discipline.  Social promotion.  All of these things can be addressed at the administrator level (of course they are going to make some parents mad in the process).

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@class80olddog @Wascatlady @Legong 

While I agree with you, 


Unfortuntely, schools cannot MAKE the courts enforce truancy laws. You are barking up the wrong tree on that one.  I have seen how it works in my district,and I suspect it is similar elsewhere.


Discipline:  The schools (administrators) are, to a large extent, hamstrung by the courts and state and federal DOEs, who seem to accept excuses and fear bias claims (of every sort, not just racial) instead of simple rules: When you come through the school doorway (or bus doorway), you will NOT do x, y, z. Period.  In addition, the courts and DOEs would demand alliterative placements for the misbehavers, which the public will never be willing to pay for.


Social promotion:  There are good people who truly believe that retaining a child dooms them. I am not one of those people.  Every one of the children I successfully (back in the old days when that was allowed) retained graduated and their parents have praised the decision. 


One thing that would certainly help would be what MaryElizabeth espouses--finding a student's ability level up front and providing instruction based on that.  I don't think that will EVER happen in Georgia, again because of money, as well as political pressure. Teachers cannot make it happen, and principals cannot either. It would take, in addition to money, a change in attitude from all concerned.

class80olddog
class80olddog

@Wascatlady @class80olddog @Legong Finding a student's ability level and teaching to it sounds like the old idea of tracking - which is no longer allowed by PC laws.  (Least Restrictive Environment?)  PC has killed education - where do you think those "federal laws" originated? 

class80olddog
class80olddog

@Wascatlady @class80olddog @Legong This is why large numbers of parents (and taxpayers) are jumping on the charter bandwagon.  While it may not actually come to fruition, these groups hope that charters WILL reject the PC notions of their traditional counterparts, that they WILL hold back students when they are not at grade level, that they WILL track students into same-level classes, that they WILL use effective discipline (including expulsion), that they will apply serious discipline for attendance violations,  Since traditional schools are NOT doing these things, people are turning their hopes to charters.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@class80olddog @Wascatlady @Legong 

"Hope." But Wascatlady's point is that the state will not supply the necessary funding, nor the state BOEs the necessary backing, to do those things. And charters will be under those constraints too.  Remember that they're all public schools, not private ones.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

I have given my thoughts on charter schools, both pro and con, for years on this blog.  If the business world has a business (profit) motive in establishing charters, at the expense of traditional public schools, then I believe that those teachers hired to teach in charter schools would have less in-depth instructional knowledge than teachers presently have because those teachers would have been hired as "teacher worker bees" with little pay and no benefits, for profit for corporate interests, to simply carryout guidelines developed by others.  The realities often do not match the ideal. That is why we need to be ever vigilant as to what is really going on politically, beyond words espoused.

@OriginalProf 

@Legong

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@OriginalProf 

I propose a more sophisticated instructional delivery in any school setting based upon (1) teachers teaming together in conference regarding their common students to address these individual students' highly varied instructional needs, (2)  multi-grade level groupings of some students, and (3) correct placement of students, continuously.  This design gives teachers more professional authority, not less authority, as the business model would do in education. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

It is not that traditional schools WILL not address these individual needs in students; it is that they do not know HOW to address these individual needs effectively. 

 To do that effectively, teachers must be given training in how to team with one another effectively, instructional specifics, and the professional autonomy to make detailed and enlightened instructional decisions, as a team of teachers, for all of their common students.

@class80olddog @OriginalProf @MaryElizabethSings @Wascatlady @Legong 

HILUX
HILUX

Good point. The National Education Association regularly backs liberal pressure groups and court cases promoting the racial biases it pretends to lament.

It helps handcuff teachers and administrators, only to later shed crocodile tears over the dysfunction caused: much like this newspaper column does.

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@class80olddog @Wascatlady @Legong To some extent, that is what to which I am alluding.  However, it is more nuanced than that, IMHO.


And, correction above "alliterative placement" should have been "alternative placement."

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

Everything that I have proposed instructionally is legal in both traditional schools and in public charter schools.  To infer that my instructional proposals might not be legal is either fear-based or disingenuous.  And, I do not think that most educators are disingenuous.

OriginalProf
OriginalProf

@MaryElizabethSings @Wascatlady 

I think that you and Wascatlady are on the same educational page. But you think that your proposals should be done, and she thinks that practically speaking (not legally speaking) they will not be done because they would cost extra money that will never be allocated.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

I am fully aware of what Wascatlady was saying.  I have said, over and over again, that the change in the instructional delivery design which I am proposing will cost no extra money, based on my professional experiences of a quarter of a century of instructional leadership.  Please let that sink in.

@OriginalProf 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

I agree with you that "having autonomy is the rub"; however, I do not agree with you that additional time and money are needed.

When I was a substitute teacher in a north Fulton middle school 9 years ago, a team of grade level teachers were conferencing together about instructional delivery while all of their students were away from their classrooms at either physical education/art classes. This involved no extra time or money.  It did involve, however, instructional know-how.

It is knowing how to work with what you have more effectively and more efficiently.  Also, I cannot agree that most elementary teachers are aware of the instructional design and insights that I have accrued over a professional lifetime in instructional leadership although they do know rudimentary techniques to create a more individualized approach and they do value that approach.  Greater training would help is all I am saying, in that regard.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

". . .jumping on the charter bandwagon. . ."

+++++++++++++++++++++


That phrase describes precisely what is happening.  And, that is no way in which to deliver instructional improvement effectively.

@class80olddog 

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@MaryElizabethSings @Wascatlady In many middle schools, teachers have 2 50 minute periods for planning and conferencing each day.  In most elementary schools, 30 minutes or less, and not every day, is the norm.  And, in the school I taught in, only 3-4 teachers were ever away from their students at the same time, for those 25 minutes (which included using the bathroom and calling parents of absent students).  Lunch times were staggered, so there MIGHT be 4-5 minutes when all teachers from one grade level were together (unless they were using the bathroom again! Darned bladders!)

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@MaryElizabethSings @Wascatlady I had absolutely NO intention of implying that your proposals were illegal!


I was merely implying that sometimes charters push the legal line on what they do, by "cooling out" undesirable students and leading them to re-enroll in traditional schools. Or by "requiring" things they cannot actually require, legally.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

I did not think you were referring to me personally.  I used your comment, however, to emphasize that what I have accomplished in instructional delivery in the past, and what I propose to be accomplished in instructional delivery in the future is not only fully legal, but will cost no more in time and money.  As Jerry Eads had stated, "Complex but right."

Wascatlady, whenever I post, I am thinking of communicating my ideas to the readers of this forum more than to answering any one individual whom I may be addressing.  I meant to slight to you, personally.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

Remember, I functioned in schools, grades 1 - 12, for 35 years, Wascatlady.  What I am saying is that scheduling of students' classes can be more accommodating to teachers having conferencing time together than is presently done to benefit instructional delivery.  The example I saw implemented in the north Fulton middle school 9 years ago is only one example of how that scheduling could be accomplished.  I have read of school districts, outside of Georgia, which have allowed teachers to be without students for all of Wednesday afternoons for the purposes of teachers planning more precise instructional delivery together.  We can make education better in this state but we cannot be defeatists or negative to ever make that happen. We must first know our present instructional weaknesses and address them intelligently and with commitment to see this venture through to have 21st century schools worthy of excellent public education for all of Georgia's students.  We are getting there slowly, but I believe we have made some leeway in teaching others how to diagnose our instructional fallacies correctly.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

Many people thought that the Jim Crow South would never be changed.  Many people thought that South Africa's system of Apartheid would never be changed.

We are failing too many students from kindergarten through college level who do not need to fail if we only have the will to change our educational/instructional delivery.

MLK believed change was possible in his day, as did Mandela.  I believe that education is the new Civil Rights cause of all students who are failing, regardless of their races or ethnic groups.  We must dream big.  Anything is possible, if we believe and know how to accomplish our goals, which we do.

Besides, what better form of reparations would be wiser to make up for our past injustices in literary than to put our money into improving our public schools, not just going through the motions but actually effecting significant change in students' lives.


(No spitting contest intended!  ;-) )

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

Should have been, "I meant no slight to you, personally."


I seem to be having a lot of "senior moments" today.  Educators, if you want to get to the knowledge of instructional delivery which I hold in my head, you had better get to me quickly, it seems.  ;-)

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

". . . what you propose would take much more person-power at the lower grades, enormous willingness to make substantial changes in how we view our role as schools, and an abandoning of current methods of dealing with students who are 'not average.' "

++++++++++++++++++++++++

I must submit that your words above seem somewhat "fear-based" and that was why I made my previous comments regarding fears - never personally intended (which is not my style).  I have seen and dealt with the fear of change that you mention, above, often throughout my career in teachers in public education (k - 12), but we must make these changes because traditional public education is failing too many students presently and corporate- run charter schools are not the answers for massive educational improvement in educational delivery in Georgia.  Btw, I am not convinced that my proposals would take "much more person-power in the lower grades" nor an "abandoning of current methods of dealing with student who are 'not average'," as you have suggested.  We would have to have a longer, sit down conversation of specific details shared to ascertain how to accomplish making Georgia's schools more effective without undue pressure on teachers, administrators, and budgets.

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@class80olddog @Legong Here is an example of how our local court seems to handle attendance.  At the school level, after the child has amassed X number of absences, the parent gets a phone call,then a letter, then a request to come to the school to meet with counselor and social worker. The parent likely does not show, multiple times, sometimes with a "reason" but usually not.  Eventually, an attendance plan/contract is written and signed.  The absences continue.The case is taken to juvenile court.  After several hearings, some of which the parent shows up for, some of which s/he does not, the case is repeatedly continued.  Then the judge is out, so another one has to be brought up to speed. The new judge does not want to rule, as he is not familiar with the case.  The next month the original judge is back.  The parent may or may not show.  By this time, it is usually the last month of school, and no decision is reached to jail the parent, because "what good would it do now."  


If the child changes schools, or the school year ends, it is all wiped away. And the next year it starts again.


My system has had excellent attendance. I think it is because of free meals, in part.  But there are families who amass months of absences or tardies year after year, child after child.  THOSE are the parents who need swift jailing, not the ridiculous "process" we have now.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

In all due respect, I proved your "reality" wrong and limited for 25 years, Wascatlady, as an instructional leader of 35 teachers and 650 students in an elementary/middle school  for 9 years, and of 100 teachers of 1800 students in an all-black suburban DeKalb County high school for 16 years, where I also functioned as the SST Chair in both schools. 


MLK changed the racial system of the South by changing "reality" as most knew it and that change created fear in many people. Teachers and perhaps some administrators will have fear of an educational change of their known "reality." I have worked through that fear, in my educational history.  I want to change the present "reality" of traditional public schools in Georgia and that change will create fear in many people, maybe not you, but many others.  I have dealt with that fear and been successful in my goals for public education for over 15 years of teaching and instructional leadership.  (As I wrote earlier, I nearly always am writing to address the wider audience of this blog, not an individual.  No disrespect to you, personally, intended.  I will never give up on my "educational dream" for this entire state because it works and fewer children fail in school with it implemented.)

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

Your assessment of what is happening regarding school truancy is on target, imo.  However, I disagree with your solution that "swift jailing" is needed.  "Prohibition" did not work in America because the legality of punishment in prison did not work. Likewise, the problems are societal with truancy, not simply educational.  Thus, the solution is to solve society's problems and address society's needs more effectively so that truancy will become a thing of the past.  Building more effective traditional public schools will aid in changing society because fewer students will think of themselves as "losers" and "failures" when they become adult citizens.

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@Legong It would be nice if parents would refuse to accept students who do not learn. Light a fire under them!

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@MaryElizabethSings @OriginalProf My perspective, from 4 decades in the (mostly) elementary-level classroom until last year,  is that what you propose would take much more person-power at the lower grades, enormous willingness to make substantial changes in how we view our role as schools, and an abandoning of current methods of dealing with students who are "not average."


I'm not going to get in a spitting contest with you on this. I agree that what you say would be great--it makes sense.  However, in the world we currently inhabit here in Georgia, I don't think it will ever happen.  Therefore, we need to find ways around the current roadblocks.

mensa_dropout
mensa_dropout

@class80olddog @Wascatlady @Legong NO, they won't. They will do the same because charter schools are public schools, and they must abide by the laws of all public schools, including RTI, 504, suspensions, and expulsions. 


MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@Wascatlady 

I apologize to you for suggesting that you were trying "(T)o infer that my instructional proposals might not be legal. . ."  I never believed that of your intent, and I should not have tried to use the comments in your post to make an instructional point that what I have experienced (and what I propose for instruction in the future) is not only legal, but time and money efficient.