If governor needs reasons to nix campus carry, go back to his 2016 veto statement

Gov. Nathan Deal appears to be building a case for signing the campus carry bill this year. (AJC File Photo)

Note Friday night: The commenting tool on this blog was broken for 24 hours.  It is now fixed. I apologize for those who could not comment. Maureen

Gov. Nathan Deal is not being subtle in his clues to whether he plans to sign the campus carry bill this week. Unlike last year when he vetoed similar campus carry legislation, Deal appears ready to sign House Bill 280.

In doing so, Deal will be repudiating his passionate veto argument last year in which he cited the historic precedent against guns on college campuses.

Deal’s veto was an act of courage we are not likely to see repeated. The governor contends this year’s bill is more palatable because it excludes guns from places where he had concerns, including child care centers. But his veto statement last year didn’t even mention child care centers.

In fact, his objections were not about where guns would be allowed on Georgia’s colleges, but whether they should be allowed.

Deal ought to reread his powerful statement, especially the part that states, “That college campuses should be a ‘gun free zone’ is a concept that has deep roots in Georgia as well…From the early days of our nation and state, colleges have been treated as sanctuaries of learning where firearms have not been allowed. To depart from such time-honored protections should require overwhelming justification. I do not find that such justification exists.”

Deal appears to be fishing for rationales to sign this year’s bill, telling WABE he has growing concerns about safety around campuses and in parking lots. He implied law enforcement has not focused enough on those outside areas, a factor most colleges would dispute.

“I am not satisfied that they have done appropriately what they should do in light of this. It’s one thing to simply rail against students having the right to defend themselves, but those students have a right to expect that civilian law enforcement would give them the protection that they deserve,” he said.

Deal is also adopting the rhetoric of the pro campus carry crowd, describing gun-less students as “defenseless.” The governor is ignoring student surveys and petitions indicating the majority oppose opening their campuses to guns and say they’ll feel less safe sitting next to armed classmates.

Deal argued last year colleges were safe and campus carry bill would not make them any safer. Not only did he quote conservative Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia’s ruling that “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on…laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings,” Deal went back to the waistcoated wonders to advance his case — the Founding Fathers.

“Perhaps the most enlightening evidence of the historical significance of prohibiting weapons on a college campus is found in the minutes of October 4, 1824, Board of Visitors of the newly created University of Virginia. Present for that meeting were Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, along with four other members. In that meeting of the Board of Visitors, detailed rules were set forth for the operation of the University which would open several months later,” wrote Deal. “Under the rules relating to the conduct of students, it provided that ‘No student shall, within the precincts of the University, introduce, keep or use any spirituous or venomous liquors, keep or use weapons or arms of any kind.”

 

Reader Comments 0

51 comments
Ann Coco
Ann Coco

As a parent with a daughter at UGA and as a therapist, I'm very concerned.   As several have mentioned, alcohol (which is common on any college campus) and guns are a dangerous combination.   In addition, mental illness often starts during the college years, a time when family members aren't around to notice the changes and get their child help.   This campus carry bill is going to lead to tragedy.   It is also going to lead to some of our brightest students and professors leaving our state colleges and universities.   If my daugther was a senior in high school instead of a rising senior at UGA, I'd encourage her to go to one of the out of state colleges that offered her scholarships.

For those of you commenting here, how many of you have students in Georgia colleges?

Governor Deal, you know better but, as with many of our politicians

, you lacked the courage this year to do the right thing.

Spinoza
Spinoza

Deal's veto was written by someone else with legal expertise though I thought at the time it expressed his views.  Nothing in this bill addresses anything in the veto and anyone can read it in its entirety and see that. 


The last GOP politician with any guts at all when it came to repudiating the NRA or an insane gun policy was George H.W. Bush when he publicly resigned from the NRA for its attacks on ATF agents.  Since then virtually every member of this party kowtows to the gun lobby and disregards the opposition and the terrible consequences which follow.


The people who drafted this nonsense and introduced it for five straight years didn't have the moral or intellectual courage to come to a single college or university campus and explain the bill, argue for it, or ask for input.  I am sure that they knew that they couldn't do any of that so they literally hid in their offices when some of us came to talk to them.


This state assembly and this governor are disgraceful.

Rick Ray
Rick Ray

Yep, just what we need...a bunch of drunk...or high...frat boys packing heat...\U0001f602\U0001f602

independentiii
independentiii

“That college campuses should be a ‘gun free zone’ is a concept that has deep roots in Georgia as well…From the early days of our nation and state, colleges have been treated as sanctuaries of learning where firearms have not been allowed. To depart from such time-honored protections should require overwhelming justification. I do not find that such justification exists.”

Even Scalia agreed with your statement.

Stick to your 'guns' , Gov Deal.  VETO this bill.


Astropig
Astropig

One student has died and multiple others were seriously injured during a stabbing attack at the UT Austin campus.

According to The Tab, eyewitnesses report that the death toll would have been higher had it not been for another student with a concealed handgun. UT Austin Student Body President Kim Binna also confirmed that a student with a concealed carry weapon stopped the attack before police could arrive.

Student Jamie Song captured the moment Police arrived and placed the suspect, 20-year-old student Kendrex J. White, in handcuffs."


This happened yesterday at UT-Austin. A good guy with a gun,which he didn't even have to discharge,stopped a killer.The police arrested the guy and stopped even worse violence from occurring.



Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig Grasping for straws as always.  Do some more reading on this issue and you will see how you don't have a leg to stand on.

Astropig
Astropig

@Spinoza @Astropig


All of your posts today are just hysterical rants.That's why your side is losing on this issue.


Try persuading people that you have better ideas.Calling them names is not working.


Jus sayin'

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig @Spinoza Still can't give an argument can you.  I said read the Heller decision and the veto, I pointed out that the law requires no firearms training, I pointed out that our campuses are among the safest places in our society.  Those are reasons and if you are unable or unwilling to acknowledge and respond to them with an argument don't waste my time.

Astropig
Astropig

@Spinoza @Astropig


These adult,law abiding citizens have the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.That's my argument.


Your childish foot stamping just makes these victories that much sweeter when they happen.(which I wish was more often)


Your argument is basically to exploit people's fears and cloak the abridgement of rights in a thin gloss of legalese.


You're the one wasting everyone's time.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig @Spinoza "Gloss"? What a joke. You're displaying your ignorance of the second amendment decisions as bad as they have become. There is no right identified in Heller or anywhere else.as you would learn if you go to the Supreme Court website and read the decisions instead of repeating yourself. The state is left to regulate this. 


It is you clowns appealing to fear given our campuses are safe and already protected as you would also know if you did some reading. You have no constitutional argument, no safety argument, nothing but ideology, rhetoric, and ignorance.

Classof98
Classof98

Maureen is no fan of guns.  Burglars and home invaders, take note.

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@Classof98 Did a story years ago on while working in Florida on what burglars said were the main disincentives in choosing which houses to rob. 


No. 1 was mean dog.

No. 2 was lots of cars in driveway.


WIth five drivers  in my household and a very loud dog, I am covered. 


By the way, burglars want to break in with homes with guns; they want guns. 


See this piece where 86 burglars answer question on how they pick victims and what they are looking for.


http://www.kgw.com/news/investigations/we-asked-86-burglars-how-they-broke-into-homes/344213396

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Classof98 Which has nothing to do with the campus carry bill does it? Our campuses are protected by armed, trained, campus police. Is there any sense or knowledge on your side at all? Are you all as dumb as a bag of hammers? It would seem so.

Astropig
Astropig

@MaureenDowney @Classof98


"By the way, burglars want to break in with homes with guns; they want guns."


No they don't.They're looking for prescription drugs,or something to steal so that they can buy opioids. They already have guns.


I've dealt with more criminals than you can shake a stick at,and your statement is absurd. 


Astropig
Astropig

@Spinoza @Classof98


" Are you all as dumb as a bag of hammers? It would seem so."


That's it. You're taking a nap right now,young man!

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@Astropig @MaureenDowney @Classof98 Nope. From U.S. Bureau of Justice, which notes guns are most often stolen in break-ins in the south.


Handguns were the most commonly stolen firearm from 2005 through 2010. At least one handgun was stolen in 63 percent of household burglaries and 68 percent of other property crimes involving firearm theft. More than one gun was stolen in 39 percent of burglaries and 15 percent of other property crimes involving gun theft.

Household burglaries involving stolen firearms were more likely to be reported to police (86 percent) than burglaries involving the theft of other items (62 percent) of comparable value ($500-$999). When a handgun was stolen, about 90 percent of burglaries were reported to the police.

From 2005 through 2010, household property crimes involving only stolen firearms resulted in a total loss of about $27 million per year. The average financial loss when only one gun was stolen was between $400 and $500 per incident.

Other findings showed—

  • About three out of four household property crimes involving stolen firearms occurred in households headed by white non-Hispanic persons.
  • From 2005 through 2010, the majority of household burglaries (56 percent) or other property crimes (59 percent) involving stolen firearms occurred in the South.
  • Households in rural areas experienced a disproportionate percentage of burglaries involving stolen firearms (34 percent), compared to the overall percentage of U.S. households located in rural areas (17 percent).

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig @MaureenDowney @Classof98 What a farce! People give you reason and you just double down with zero evidence.You can't give an argument at all. And you call people a waste of time. You are a waste of oxygen.

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

@MaureenDowney @Lee_CPA2 @Classof98


I guess Maureen didn't read the entire article, especially the part where the anti-gun Clinton justice department commissioned a study in 1996 designed to debunk the Kleck study (which estimates law abiding citizens use a gun about 2 million times per year defensively).  The Clinton study identified 3 MILLION defensive uses and then declared they couldn't  "measure the true number of defensive uses".  


Of course, the Clintons then shelved their study when it didn't support their anti-gun position.

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

Registered gun owners are twice as likely to be murdered and 3 times as likely to commit suicide (Univ Penn LDI Issue Brief 2003;8(8), 1-4; Ann Int Med, Jan, 2014).  Carrying a gun increases the likelihood of being robbed (for the gun) and the likelihood one will be shot during the robbery when trying to produce the gun in response to the gun pointed at one's head.  College students are demanding safety on campus ('well regulated militia') and absence of guns in the hands of fellow students, employees, and faculty.  Do not destroy the reputation of Georgia Tech, UGA, Kennesaw, etc.

Starik
Starik

@Ralph-43 Maybe we should have a "well regulated militia" on some campuses; do background checks, require training, and allow selected people to carry concealed weapons only on campus. The people most likely to strut around with a gun on their hip wouldn't be the people you'd want carrying them.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Starik @Ralph-43 We already have trained, armed, campus police who regularly plan and practice for problems.  In part for this reason our campuses are nearly the safest public spaces in this society.  

Argument means little here in the political realm.  It is about power, special interests, the leverage in particular a few people in the state assembly hold, and the leverage of the NRA above all. 

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Starik @Ralph-43  I forgot to mention that this is not open carry legislation but allows students to conceal weapons on their persons and in their possessions.

Astropig
Astropig

Governor Deal's refusal to sign the bill last year was because he wanted certain protections and exceptions.The legislature included those in this bill.Thus, to keep faith with the implicit promise made last year, he should sign this bill.


This is going to happen,whether Deal signs this bill or some future governor enacts it.


It.


Will.


Happen.


Deal can sign this one and enshrine his concerns in a law that includes the exceptions he seeks,or he can veto it and most likely watch a future governor sign the same thing without excluded spaces. 

independentiii
independentiii

@Astropig not likely a D gov would sign such a bill, and it's loooking like that party will hold the Gov seat from 2018 on for a while.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig Read the veto, nothing was addressed by these revisions.  It is all political.  He doesn't have the guts to stand up to the NRA who said openly how much trouble they would make for him if he sought to run for any other office.


This bill doesn't restrict beans.  There will be guns all over campus regardless.

Astropig
Astropig

@independentiii @Astropig


"not likely a D gov would sign such a bill, "


Entirely true.But not a concern,because there won't be a D governor for many,many years.

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

New York and Michael Bloomberg markedly reduced gun crimes in New York by enforcing the Second Amendment - 'Well Regulated Militia'. No concealed carry out in public by private citizens.  All guns stay home.  Stolen guns in the back packs, pants, and boots of the gang bangers removed by 'Stop and Frisk'.  Adding more guns on Georgia campuses of high learning will provide more guns for the gang bangers and lower the reputation of the educational and intellectual measurement of these institutions world wide.  Don't embarrass Georgia.  Send the Gun Manufacturer's Political Action Committee back to the farm.   

Classof98
Classof98

@Ralph-43 Let's pretend there was a constitutional amendment that ensured a right to drive and it read, "The ability to drive to work, being necessary to the wellbeing of the citizen, the right to drive shall not be infringed."


If you believe that sentence precludes the right to drive anywhere else except work, you don't understand the English language.


The founders mentioned the militia as supporting reasoning for the 2nd Amendment, not as it's entire purpose.



Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

This is what, about the fortieth anti-gun screed Maureen has posted on this subject?  Quantity over quality, eh Maureen.  I guess you are going for the age old adage "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes accepted as the truth." 


I remember going to high school in the 70's, come deer season, just about every pickup truck in the student parking lot had a shotgun or 30-30 in the gun rack in the back window.  Nobody thought anything of it.  Our high school had a rifle team, we shot 22 caliber rifles ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.


Nowadays, a kid draws a picture of the gun and the teacher and principal go ballistic [pun intended].  Kids are suspended for Tweety Bird key chains.  A kid chews a Poptart into the shape of a pistol and gets suspended.  Is it any wonder the mere thought of seeing a person with a license to carry sends them quivering into their "safespace"?


Gov Deal, just sign the damn bill already.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Lee_CPA2 Your little story is irrelevant and frankly stupid.  A rifle range is a controlled environment.  This bill allows untrained students to carry concealed lethal weapons into a classroom and decide when to use them. 


Our campuses are among the safest places in this society bar none. We already have trained police on campus.  You guys can't reason well enough to pour water out of a cup with the directions on the bottom.

Astropig
Astropig

@Lee_CPA2


"A kid chews a Poptart into the shape of a pistol and gets suspended. "


Yes-this is significant. That was probably the moment that I realized that the gun grabbers (like the posters above,below and on the byline) are Bat -Crazy.When these nut jobs are willing to do something that stupid,then NO WAY do I want them making policy that could affect my safety.When they're unhinged enough to ban "tactical dessert pastries",then the rest of our rights are in just a minor inconvenience to them Next,they'll come for our Salad Shooters.


Spinoza
Spinoza

@Astropig @Lee_CPA2 The little silly stories you spend your time looking up and repeating are irrelevant. We are talking about college and university campuses (ever set foot on one?)


But never mind actually doing some reading of the studies done on this issue. Never let facts get in the way of your ideology and emotions.

Starik
Starik

@Spinoza @Astropig @Lee_CPA2 To be fair, the most recent case at Univ of Texas would have been stopped earlier if one of the kid victims or observers had a gun and knew how to shoot it.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Starik 

One case is hardly the basis for a policy though it does make for hasty generalizations. It is also irrelevant here in Georgia because no one is required to know how to use a gun and in a crowded situation an innocent person may be shot by an untrained student.  Leave it to the police. 


There have been no shootings on college campuses prevented by such laws but there have been a few accidents and injuries.

Starik
Starik

@Spinoza @Starik Train the people who are allowed to carry, concealed only, and do deep background checks. The police aren't always around.

Another comment
Another comment

Gov. Deal, since the Library assaults and robberies last year, now the campus police have been permanently assigned to the Library.

So are the City of Atlanta streets suppose to be patrolled by the college police of ADP., and Georgia State Patrol. Then who would sit in the driveway of the Govenors Mansion and patrol West Paces Ferry and Habersham aka the Govenors block. The other blocks around town that the big donors live, work and play in.

Veto, the Bill, it will only put more guns in the hands of criminals when careless 21 year olds leave them in their pickup truck glove boxes with NRA or 2nd amendment stickers.

Spinoza
Spinoza

@Another comment Let's not forget that we have 32 colleges and universities in this state as well and none of the others need campus police in the library.  Statistically it is harder to find a safer place than a college campus.


This is just another manufactured pseudo problem by the right motivated by the desire to move the NRA's agenda.

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

@Another comment

Let me get this straight, college campuses have to have armed guards in the library?!?!?!   


That makes the case why this campus carry bill should be passed.  Thanks for the info.