Life isn’t fair. Neither is college admission.

Georgia Tech announced today it will follow UGA’s example and offer automatic acceptance to Georgia high school students who graduate first and second in their class.

I am just getting back from the Education Writers Association National Seminar in Washington followed by a few days visiting my mother, who, despite dementia, has not lost her ability to get to the essence. Reminded I work as a newspaper journalist, she asked how I like it. When I told her I like it, she said, “Why? Everybody hates bad news, but nobody wants to read good news. Unless it’s about them.”

On that note, I will share some good news that illustrates my mother’s point – it’s about me. I won the Education Writers Association national award for Opinion Writing. Thanks to the EWA judges and thanks to the AJC for allowing me the privilege to write this blog and a column for the print newspaper.

My AJC boss Chris Quinn and fellow education writer Marlon Walker also attended the EWA seminar, which drew more than 300 national education writers and offered dozens of workshops featuring leading researchers. I have a list of blog ideas that I intend to pursue out of the seminar.

I am still on vacation, but wanted to throw out a topic fresh on my mind – college admissions. After going through the process with my twins this year, I’m relieved it’s finished.

Many parents wonder how admissions decisions are made. (I will eventually write about an EWA panel in which two reporters discussed how they uncovered the role of donations and political clout in admissions at two top public universities, the University of Virginia and the University of Texas law school.)

In Georgia, the greatest frustration is typically around how Georgia Tech admits its classes. For example, I had a conversation with one parent who felt her daughter did not get into Tech because she attended a private school and was thus held to a higher standard. But a friend maintained to me that her nephew got into Tech despite middling SAT scores “because he went to a private school.”

It is baffling. I agree. I know kids waitlisted at Tech who got into Duke and Carnegie Mellon.

Rick Clark, undergraduate admissions director at Georgia Tech, provides some insights in his blog. With Tech’s approval, here are Clark’s wise words. (Go here to read the full piece, including Clark’s advice for students starting to consider colleges.):

“How can you waitlist my son? He has 30 points higher and two more APs than your average. And we know someone down the street who got in that….” “Something is wrong with your process if my daughter who has been through as many medical issues as she has and still has a 3.8 is not getting in. Talk about not being fair….”

Kids are among the most vocal about longing for fairness. Spend the same amount of money on presents? “Well, he got more gifts.” Buy the exact same number of gifts? “That one of her’s is bigger!” “Okay, tell you what, I’m going to take all of these out to the fire pit then and you can play with this cardboard box.” Now they’re both screaming in unison, writhing on the ground and flailing, with great gnashing of teeth. It’s like a scene from Revelation followed by a simultaneous and guttural reaction: “That’s not fair!”

Well, my friends, neither is college admission. If you applied to a college that has a selective (meaning below 33% admit rate) process, or if you are a counselor, principal, parent, friend of someone who has gone through this lately, you know this to be true. Inevitably, you know someone who was denied or waitlisted that was “better” or “more qualified” or “should have gotten in.”

I try not to specifically speak for my colleagues, but I feel confident saying this for anyone that works at a highly selective college that has just denied a ton of the students you are thinking about/calling about/inquiring about: We know. It’s NOT fair. You’re not crazy. In fact, we’d be the first to concur that there are many denied students with higher SAT/ACT scores or more community service or more APs or who wrote a better essay or participated in more clubs and sports than some who were admitted. But here is what is critical for you to understand– ultimately, the admission process for schools denying twice or three times or sometimes ten times more students than they admit– is not about fairness. It’s about mission.

If you look at the academic profiles of Caltech and Amherst, they are very similar. But take a look at their missions.

Amherst (abbreviated) “Amherst College educates men and women of exceptional potential from all backgrounds so that they may seek, value, and advance knowledge, engage the world around them, and lead principled lives of consequence… and is committed to learning through close colloquy and to expanding the realm of knowledge through scholarly research and artistic creation at the highest level. Its graduates link learning with leadership—in service to the College, to their communities, and to the world beyond.”

Caltech “…to expand human knowledge and benefit society through research integrated with education. We investigate the most challenging, fundamental problems in science and technology in a singularly collegial, interdisciplinary atmosphere, while educating outstanding students to become creative members of society.”

The difference in missions is why an individual student sometimes gets in to a higher ranked or more selective school and is denied at another. The student applying to Amherst has the same profile, involvement, writing ability, scores, and grades. but is a totally different fit in their process than for Caltech. This is, at least in part, what counselors are talking about when they say “fit.” It’s fit with mission.

A quick look at Georgia Tech

Founded: 1885. Classes begin 1888. One major- Mechanical Engineering. All male. It was a trade school responding to the needs of 19th century and early 20th century Georgia and US South.  The focus was on training and preparation for product creation and being prepared to lead and create the next in an industrializing state, region, and nation. Were there more “qualified” or “smarter” students at the time who had aspirations of becoming ministers or lawyers or physicians? Unquestionably. And had they applied with those intentions, they likely would not have been admitted. It was not our mission to educate students for those roles.

1912: Tech establishes a “School of Commerce” which is essentially a business program. 1952: Tech begins enrolling women. 1961: Georgia Tech becomes the first school in the South to integrate classes without a court order. It’s not hard for me to envision a younger brother in 1954 who is by all counts smarter than his older brother not being admitted to Tech due to this change in mission. Supply and demand drive admit rates. If your supply shrinks due to a shift in your mission, then admission decisions also change based upon factors besides grades, scores, or performance.

At Tech, our mission is “to define the technological university of the 21st century.” Our motto is “Progress and Service.” Our commitment is to “improve the human condition.” So while we are going to provide stats and averages and profiles like all other schools, these are the conversations in admission committee that contribute to decisions. Fair? No. Perfect? No. Reality? Yes.

If you are a senior (or a parent of a senior) who has been denied or waitlisted: You are most likely just as smart, capable, and talented as other students admitted to that school. Move past the numbers and the comparison. You’re absolutely right: it’s not fair in a comparative sense. But that school has made its decisions in light of advancing their mission. Inevitably, you’ve also been admitted to a school where, if you looked hard enough, you could find someone denied with higher scores or more APs or better grades than you. But you fit their mission. Embrace that!

Reader Comments 0

87 comments
SP5000
SP5000

I read all about GT's mission and motto and at the end of the day it still does not validate their process.  How can you tell students to aim for a target when the target moves with the wind and has blurred lines.  Further, if you look at the GT fact book before and after they started using the Common App, you will see some very alarming patterns in admitted, accepted and enrolled students.  Clearly, the aim is not "holistic" or about the motto or mission.  Private colleges can make their own rules because they are just that - private.  GT and UGA are both PUBLIC universities therefore their admissions criteria should be PUBLIC and if a Georgia student can check the boxes then that student should receive priority over an out-of-state or out-of-country student.  Further, how many Georgia students are being accepted at out-of-state schools for the same reason UGA and GT take out-of-state students?  The answer is the financially appealing out-of-state tuition dollars!

Angie Strickland Simpson
Angie Strickland Simpson

Remember that the HOPE scholarship changed admissions dynamics dramatically. Top students who would have gone out of state a generation ago are now staying in Georgia for the financial benefits of HOPE. That makes the most prestigious public universities much more selective in their admissions.

jehardi47
jehardi47

I too have twins who went through the process two years ago. They both attended a science and math magnet school in Cobb county that required double the math and science and took an above average number of AP courses. They both ran x-county, had internships and volunteered regularly. The only difference was one got a 79 in physics (her only C)  and the other got a B in the same class. The one with the C was denied admission to UGA even though she had a higher ACT score, while her sister was accepted early admission. Clearly there is no rhyme or reason and rigor is not rewarded.

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@jehardi47 UGA says it puts more weight on GPA than test scores and I have seen that in several instances -- kids with higher GPAs getting in over kids with slightly lower GPAs but higher ACT scores. I also have seen rigor mattering -- kids with lower GPAs but higher numbers of AP or IB getting in.

Lee_CPA2
Lee_CPA2

"... the admission process for schools denying twice or three times or sometimes ten times more students than they admit– is not about fairness. It’s about mission."

And then:

"At Tech, our mission is “to define the technological university of the 21st century.”"


Reminds me of the old joke:

"What's two plus two?"

Accountant:  "What do you want it to be?"


Bottom line:  You are a PUBLIC university supported by the taxpayers of Georgia.  You should be able to articulate the admission standards in a clearly definable manner.   We don't care for your mealy mouth, educratic doublespeak.

Carolyn Haldeman
Carolyn Haldeman

A movie that I enjoyed showing seniors is How I Got Into College, a "screwball comedy" that makes some good points about the anguishing process of getting into the college of one's choice-- entrance exams, college recruiters, admissions officers, and "two shady college prep tutors," played by the late Phil Hartman and Nora Dunn.  I highly recommend it.


My students laughed at the 'eighties dress, cars, and cost of gas; however, the process hasn't changed that much.  In typical romantic comedy fashion, the movie ends as we had hoped it would.  In reality, some aspects of the whole process of choosing a college and getting into that college seems perplexing and often unfair.


In our country there are many college choices--a college to fit every dream and every skill.  My three children are very different.  One chose Sewanee, another Guilford, and the third Elon-- all primarily undergraduate-focused colleges with small classes but vastly different personalities.  Other seniors are ready to move to big colleges to enjoy  an expansive sports program, the benefits of research Universities, or name recognition.  While it can be a big blow not to get the Hope scholarship to Tech or UGA, there are many other Georgia colleges that are easier to get into and often give the student the major and rigor of our state's prize universities.  For instance, students who didn't make the cut for Tech have gone to Southern Tech, now part of Kennesaw State U. for their first two years and then transferred to Tech.


To parents and students, my advice after watching students go through this rite of passage for my 48 years of teaching, is to relax, assess options, and know that few decisions are irrevocable.


insideview
insideview

Love the title. It's time parents start teaching children that life is not fair, get over it and move on. Students today need to be more resilient and their parents need to be more mature. If you live long even enough you come to understand that life is not fair and you work your plan B.

class80olddog
class80olddog

UGA supposedly only uses GPA and test scores for early admission - but early admission is only 30% of entrants.  The other 70% have to compete based on "other" criteria (which UGA will not detail).  When someone keeps a secret, there is usually a good reason.  

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@class80olddog If you look at those video interviews I did with David Graves of UGA earlier this year, he talks about those other factors, which are the typical factors colleges consider, the stuff students do outside class.

From the UGA site: Public service, co-curricular activities, community involvement, leadership and family commitments; integrity and personal maturity.

Jodie53
Jodie53

They can't possibly do an objective evaluation on "the stuff students do outside class". The sheer volume of applicants and limited reviewers makes it impossible.

ScottTrepanier
ScottTrepanier

Thanks for the information.My son's experience was similar to many of those commenting.

I think that there is a much more important issue for Georgia than how students are admitted.Georgia has the 8th largest population in the U.S.The states that have larger populations than Georgia have at least two liberal arts schools that are at the level of the University of Georgia and typically have a larger number of undergraduate students enrolled.The issue that must be addressed is the lack of a comparable school to the University of Georgia in our state and the number of students that Georgia and Georgia Tech enroll.

I have been told that it doesn’t matter where you go in Georgia if you don’t get in to the University Georgia or Georgia Tech.That a very sad statement.Our children should have another Tier 1 research university that they can attend in our state.Whether the state invests in Georgia State or Kennesaw State as our states second tier 1 university doesn’t matter.We simply need it to make the investment.

This problem is leading students that should be attending college in Georgia to leave for other states.Many of them will never return to Georgia to work.This makes no sense.For Georgia's economy to reach its potential, we need every possible well educated person that our school systems produce to receive their higher education in our state, so that they will work in our state.

In the short term, the state government needs to require the University of Georgia to enroll more first year students.The 6000-6500 that UGA states is their enrolling class does not meet the needs of the state any more.8000 to 9000 Georgia High School graduates need to be enrolling annually at the University of Georgia because it will take time to get a second Georgia school to UGA’s level.Until that occurs the University of Georgia has to meet the state’s needs.The same can be said for Georgia Tech.

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@ScottTrepanier Years ago, then Chancellor Erroll B. Davis said his goal was to turn Georgia College & State University into the state's liberal arts "jewel." 

I was impressed when I visited it with my kids, but they felt it was too small. (That was one of the attractions for me, but not them.) I have heard excellent reviews about Georgia College. I also have seen many kids do great things out of Georgia State. 

Jodie53
Jodie53

I totally agree with scotttrepanier's comment! D1 schools are limited in this state! Fix it Georgia!

AngieSS
AngieSS

@ScottTrepanier UGA is already a huge school. Makes more sense to me to boost the reputations of the smaller schools to make them more attractive. Face it, there is not dorm space, parking or classroom space for that many more students. Athens traffic is a horror. Plus, they have to leave a little slack in the freshman enrollment to allow for transfer students. Plenty of people do two years at community college to save money and then transfer in. Look also at places like UGA-Griffin. Their diploma says UGA just like the ones from Athens.

Lauren Gallagher
Lauren Gallagher

I'm dismayed that the GA Tech representative included the word "her's" in his blog. Perhaps GATech needs to spend more time on grammar requirements!

Jimbo
Jimbo

As a Tech grad, I hoped my youngest who had a great academic record would get an early admission.  She got waitlisted.  I had to do an "emergency" application to UGA but it was too late for early admissions.  There was something called "rolling admissions" and she was accepted in a flash. When I made an inquiry to Tech, I was told she didn't have enough AP classes in her freshman and sophomore years.  This worked out great as she loved UGA, did great and has a very high paying position with a large bank; makes more than her best friend who did go through Tech.  She majored in finance with a minor in math.  This degree crap is so overblown.


Karen lynne
Karen lynne

Congrats Maureen! I have a different perspective. I believe it's more important where you go for grad school verses undergrad. Both my kids went on the Hope for undergrad, 1 went to GSU & the other UGA. Both graduated Cum Laude and BOTH went to GSU Law School. Interestingly, kids who graduate from GSU Law School get hire sooner and make just as much as an Emory grad. GSU now has a higher decline and waitlist for their law program. They are ranked in the top 5 programs of Tier 2 schools but higher ranked than Tulane. Nonetheless, I do believe there is preferential treatment to many.

Alexboston
Alexboston

Congratulations! Very proud of you!

Jodie53
Jodie53

Maureen--Congrats! I've followed your opinions on Education since a stint I did in EdTech a few years ago. Very refreshing. 


I would replace "Gatech" with "UGA" in your story and it would've been what we experienced with our new HS graduate's application and rejection to UGA this year. She was accepted to every other Division 1 school she applied to BTW. 

Two things:

1) It really does depend on where your kid attends High School in this state. Although UGA claims there's no "quota" established in recruiting from highly ranked high schools, I've seen the longitudinal data, and it shows about the same number of students accepted each year-at least from our daughter's school. How's that not a quota? Granted our daughter was "on the bubble" from an ACT perspective, her grades allow her to take full advantage of HOPE, and her leadership in this community is pronounced. Even the AJC has reported on her. 

2) When I spoke with the UGA admissions coordinator at length about the "whys" of rejection, she couldn't answer specifically--would have to come from an "open records" request--but mentioned that she reviewed "over 1000" applications herself (and with 25,000 applicants at $60 per= you do the math). It's nearly impossible to get an adequate review of a student's application. 

Personally, I think you should take this article further. If your kid has straight A's and perfect ACT/SAT, your golden. But what about the majority of kids? They don't stand a chance getting a D1 experience in this state. 

chickman
chickman

Congratulations on the award and recognition. Enjoy your perspective so much in the AJC...

weetamoe
weetamoe

I think it would be helpful if you would provide your definition of "critical thinking." One of my issues of "Fast Company" raised the issue during the past year and I have since seen many many articles in a variety of publications discussing the dearth of critical thinking skills among recent grads (including the Ivies.) Our family members who are Ivy grads do well financially but earnings are no evidence of those skills---just as I have found over the years that high school GPA's are no guarantee that a student is well prepared for rigorous university classes.

GeorgiaSouthernDad
GeorgiaSouthernDad

Congrats Maureen! Well deserved!

And thanks for the timely topic. The college admissions process can be very frustrating for those with only one school on their wish list. And, of course, everything changed with the advent of the HOPE scholarship. Diversity, or as I think of it, 'anybody but the white guy', is a very real goal for these schools. Should it be? Well, a private school can do whatever it wants. A tax-payer funded school should, I'll argue, be sensitive to its benefactors and the student population should at least be representative of the general population. Been to a football game in Athens lately? The current crop of students, imo, more closely represents the worlds population, not Georgia's. I had always felt that UGA was a resource for us Georgians. Not anymore. They seem to value the international students over our own. Is this their mission? Perhaps our legislators would be interested to know.

redweather
redweather

@GeorgiaSouthernDad 72% of the students attending UGA are white.  Asians represent just under 10% of the student population, while blacks account for 7.5%.

Not sure who is attending football games or where you sat, but UGA's population is hardly representative of "the worlds (sic) population." 

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@GeorgiaSouthernDad If you mean people from India, I think they are considered Asian.  If you mean Native Americans, I would guess they are negligible.

GeorgiaSouthernDad
GeorgiaSouthernDad

You are correct (thanks!), Indians (Not native Americans) are considered Asians. American Indians have their own category.

But, just to re-focus my original comments, the acceptance criteria for the freshmen class is what is up for discussion. And we have every right to question how our state universities handle this.

iwd
iwd

Congratulations on the well-deserved award. Your blog (sans the comments sometimes) is an island of rationality in a sea of nonsense. Thanks!

SouthernHope5
SouthernHope5

For what's it worth, my kid was rejected from Tech waitlist in May but accepted to UNC Chapel Hill & Cornell.


(and I have no problem with that rejection...Tech is a nationally known college..in many cases, ranking above schools such as MIT & Stanford in key majors...and that's because they pick the absolute top of the crop).



momtwo2
momtwo2

I believe that Round 1 at UGA is based on scores and GPA.  (and from what I hear the luck of what high school you go to).  But that round 2 is more holistic.    GA Tech, at least tries to admit more from instate than international and out of state.   Having just been through this process, there are many many kids out of there with 4.0 and high end test scores.  There are not enough spots at top colleges and universities for all these students, so there will be rejections.  At the same time there are kids who just dont "test well", or are "naturally super smart". these are the kids that need to put in effort for their grades.  I will venture to say that some of these kids might be more successful in college than those who easily get by in high school.     Then the factor of "race".   There are kids who are partially hispanic, asian, AA, and so on.   Will that help or hurt you.?

What i have learned in this process is that one should have a True safety school or two, and then just keep your fingers crossed that you might get into a match or reach school that is affordable.

Dawg^2
Dawg^2

Perhaps Georgia Tech needs to reevaluate its mission, because, as the largest engineering school in America, the output of its graduates is dismal.  It is no Stanford.  Or, perhaps, it needs to change its admission policies.  Georgia Tech needs to serve the state of Georgia, and the top engineers in this country are not made simply by having the best math SAT.  Top engineers/innovators of the last 40 years, Bill Gates (Harvard, no degree), Steve Jobs (really, no college), Elon Musk (Penn, economics and physics), 2 Google guys (Stanford), Mark Zuckerberg (Harvard, no degree).  The CEO of Apple, the most valuable company in the world, got his engineering degree from Auburn!  That has to hurt.  To serve Georgia, make 80% of students be from Georgia.  I do not care to have my tax dollars pay for a school to educate students from India, China, Bangladesh, New Jersey or California.  Let's take our students from our state, where they are more likely to stay after graduation and let's teach them the importance of creativity so that Georgia can be known as a state for technology and innovation (I'm CEO of a public biotech company, Georgia is poor in the innovation department).

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

Congratulations on the award! You do a wonderful job and I appreciate your effort to learn more, rather than just fill space.  Your predecessors did well, also, but you bring something special to this table.


I also appreciate the variety of your topics; you are open to all the areas of education, rather than focusing on just one.


I admire your patience with some of us, also.

catmom-scout
catmom-scout

Congratulations on the award, Maureen. I read most of your posts but don't always comment. Even though I disagree with some of your positions, your posts are well researched and written in a thoughtful way. I work for one of the two organizations known for standardized testing for higher ed admissions, and your columns are always of great interest to me.

MicrobeFan
MicrobeFan

Congratulations on your writing award. Your column is the only consistent draw for me to read this publication. You bravely tackle the lightning rod issues (such as the topic of this piece) that less gifted thinkers mangle and that your peers won't touch.

Caracrafts
Caracrafts

Congratulations on the award!  You deserve it.  Thank you for always giving me something to think about.

weetamoe
weetamoe

How about a future column on why college graduates, especially those from the "Ivies,"  have not learned critical thinking. Critical thinking was one of your favorite topics at one time, but you have avoided mention of it for quite a while. Maybe critical thinkers do not win awards?

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@weetamoe If you believe in market forces, there is strong evidence that Ivy graduates have sufficient critical thinking to be quite successful. Here is some of that evidence with links provided:


Ten years after starting college, the typical Ivy League grad earns more than twice as much as the typical graduate of other colleges. In fact, the median Ivy graduate -- say, your solid B- Harvard student -- is making more money than the top 10 percent of graduates at other schools. The top 10 percent of Ivy League grads are earning $200,000 or more ten years after starting school. The top earners of other schools, on the other hand, are making just a hair under $70,000.These numbers come from a first-of-its kind data release from the Department of Education.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/14/this-chart-shows-why-parents-push-their-kids-so-hard-to-get-into-ivy-league-schools/?utm_term=.eaa732173fa2

Far and away, the nation’s science, math, technology, and Ivy League colleges produce the highest-earning graduates, according to PayScale.com salary data released today.

The average grad of math- and science-heavy colleges such as Harvey Mudd, CalTech, and the Georgia Institute of Technology out-earned grads of any other type of college, netting $677,000 more in earnings over 20 years than someone who didn’t attend college at all (minus the cost of attending the college).

Graduates of the Ivy League came in a close second, netting $650,000 in extra earnings over the first 20 years of their career. Both groups of schools report returns on investment that are at least 80% higher than any other type of school in PayScale’s analysis.

http://time.com/money/3732797/best-colleges-high-earnings/

Students pay more for their Ivy League education, those schools invest substantially more into each student when compared to other schools. In fact, elite schools spend 7.75 times more on each student. That translates in to $92,000 per student at Ivy League schools versus only $12,000 at second-tier institutions

Read more: The Value Of An Ivy League Education http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0811/the-value-of-an-ivy-league-education.aspx#ixzz4jPcsq96f 



ShirtlessHooligan
ShirtlessHooligan

@MaureenDowney @weetamoe  This is interesting and thanks for sharing. However, the Washington Post stats for example, compare Ivy League grads to "All Other Schools." It's not surprising that the Ivy Leagues would come out ahead given that they can and do admit only highly, highly competent students. More interesting would be an apples to apples comparison. My kid, who is who he is wherever he goes to school: would he be better off taking on $300K of loans to go to an Ivy or going somewhere else for much less money or possibly no money? (And yes, I know there is such a thing as financial aid for many people, but the choice I have presented is the choice my kid had.)

ShirtlessHooligan
ShirtlessHooligan

@MaureenDowney @weetamoe  Also, by taking on all that debt, a person is trapped into needing to get a really high paying job. How much money you make is (obviously) not the only measure of whether your life is a success.

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@MaureenDowney @weetamoe I think if you adjust for SES and parental education, the Ivies don't do a much better job--they do what you'd expect, given the SES and parental education.

MaureenDowney
MaureenDowney moderator

@Wascatlady @MaureenDowney @weetamoe I agree that the Ivies and other select schools start with an advantaged student body. And the advantages continue; I talked to several smart young journalists who attended top privates and got their start after accepting unpaid internships. Their ability to pick up and go to New York or LA for an unpaid internship contributed to their success at landing a good job. A lot of college students could never have done that, including me. We have to look at how advantage begets more advantage. And we have to look at the kids in the middle. I talked to a former federal ed official who agreed that those kids whose families are above working poor but below upper middle class get lost in a lot of our discussions about college and affordability. 

RUFRUF
RUFRUF

@MaureenDowney @Wascatlady @weetamoe  First off MD, we all work to create an advantage for our children, we have had that conversation many times, but you refuse to acknowledge the role that committed parents that sacrifice to give their child opportunity and start young by making sure each child is aware that life is not fair- you never acknowledge the role the parents play in preparing their children for a future- as far as internships- my daughter ( 21 ) is going to Manhattan for a 3 month internship and will be paid 69k for 3 months- it's in a business discipline, and her mother and I made sure she was to major in a career that promised a future- I suggest you read John Rosemond- old school is still the best school.


class80olddog
class80olddog

So if my momma is black and my daddy is white, can I claim I am black on the application form?  We all know you can be whatever gender you want. 

EHouse
EHouse

@class80olddog I know someone who put black on their graduate school application form even though they have two "white" parents.  According to him, race is not well defined in the law, and you can claim to be whatever you want.  I'd see a lawyer before depending on that, however.

catmom-scout
catmom-scout

@EHouse If you hadn't used the pronoun "him," I would have thought you were talking about Rachel Dolezal.

gapeach101
gapeach101

@class80olddog Considering that virtually 100%  of America would consider you to be black, yes, you can check that box.

class80olddog
class80olddog

Was it wrong for Tech to refuse admission to women?  Dang right it was wrong!  Was it wrong for UGA to refuse admission to blacks?  Dang right it was wrong!  Is it wrong for UGA today to deny admission to a white female solely because of her race and sex?  You answer that question.  Someone said "The best way to end discrimination is to quit discriminating."  

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@class80olddog Was it wrong for UGA to refuse admission to women?  Dang right it was wrong!


As part of my work for my PhD, I got to interview a few of the small number of initial female admitees still living at the time.  Their stories rival any you can name.